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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-November/019733.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-November/019733.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7c8f1f92e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-November/019733.html @@ -0,0 +1,138 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista (war Re: rehashing the faac issue) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista%20%28war%20Re%3A%20rehashing%0A%20the%20faac%20issue%29&In-Reply-To=%3CCA%2Bh4nj5Q250V_jZLPPU%2B-OLXDp-OF8Y1GgjrmTaNAiq7OHBE9g%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="019731.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="019734.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista (war Re: rehashing the faac issue)</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista%20%28war%20Re%3A%20rehashing%0A%20the%20faac%20issue%29&In-Reply-To=%3CCA%2Bh4nj5Q250V_jZLPPU%2B-OLXDp-OF8Y1GgjrmTaNAiq7OHBE9g%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista (war Re: rehashing the faac issue)">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Nov 1 23:44:52 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="019731.html">[Mageia-dev] cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista (war Re: rehashing the faac issue) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="019734.html">[Mageia-dev] cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista (war Re: rehashing the faac issue) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#19733">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#19733">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#19733">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#19733">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2012/11/1 Christian Lohmaier <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">lohmaier+mageia at googlemail.com</A>>: +><i> Hi Wolfgang, *, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Wolfgang Bornath <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">molch.b at googlemail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> [...] +</I>>><i> After reading all arguments again I must confess that I changed my +</I>>><i> opinion: Being consequent and following our road we need a +</I>>><i> /tainted-free and a /tainted-nonfree branch. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I still think this would be a very user-*un*friendly way to handle it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You cannot put packages that itself is "free", but depends on +</I>><i> "tainted&nonfree" packages into the "free" repo, since the core repos +</I>><i> need to be self-contained. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The natural approach would then be to put that package into the same +</I>><i> repo as the packages that fulfill the requirement. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If now you have two tainted repositories, one "free" and one +</I>><i> "non-free", you would put the "free with dependencies" package into +</I>><i> the tainted-free repo. But it itself isn't tainted, so actually +</I>><i> wouldn't belong in there. But even when you have tainted-free enabled, +</I>><i> and you try to install the package, you need to enable the +</I>><i> tainted-nonfree one. +</I>><i> Or you put it into tainted-nonfree to keep the repos more +</I>><i> self-contained, but then the distinction is rendered useless, as +</I>><i> packages end up there for completely different reasons. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And if you have to enable both tainted variants anyway, there is no +</I>><i> point in having them separate in the first place other than to please +</I>><i> some bureaucratic nitpicking. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So by creating a tainted-nonfree repo that only a handful of packages +</I>><i> actually belong into anyway, you create a situation of non-satisfiable +</I>><i> dependencies that make the distinction pointless from a user-POV. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Much better would then be to create an "ugly" repo (in the spirit of +</I>><i> gstreamer) that contains the "doesn't fit into the other repos" stuff. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> AFAIK only multimedia related stuff falls into tainted-nonfree. And it +</I>><i> is either you want to use it or not. If you want to use it, the user +</I>><i> doesn't care whether it is free or nonfree (by whatever definition, +</I>><i> there isn't the one-and-only definition that everyone agrees with +</I>><i> anyway). You only might care about whether it is tainted or not (and +</I>><i> many don't give a damn about software patents even where they could +</I>><i> apply in theory). It is not like you have a chance in most of these +</I>><i> cases. Either you use a "100% free but sucks" implementation, or you +</I>><i> use the "tainted and possibly "nonfree", but working just fine" one. +</I> +Taking what you wrote into account there is no chance for a solution +which also honors the division between free, non-free and tainted, at +least non of the propositions in this thread would work. Because as +you described the problem is not with each software but rather with +its requirements (free software needing a non-free or tainted library +to run or offer all its features). + +So what can we do? What do users want in such cases? First they do not +want crippled packages. If they decide to have mplayer they want the +whole thing, not a free variant which lacks features. They'd rather +not want mplayer at all. + +Answering to this there may be a rather pragmatic but also drastic and +even provocative solution: Stop offering software in core which need +non-free and/or tainted libraries to give all its features. This +software should not be offered in 2 or even 3 variants but only in one +full version, residing in an "ugly" (or whatever you want to call it) +repository. +Yes, there may be people who would like to use mplayer without +non-free or tainted libraries - but are there really? To my experience +they either use the full blown package or another software. + +This solution may not hold against theoretical arguments but I think +it's pretty much the practical way, for users as for packagers. And it +will motivate people to search for free solutions where possible. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="019731.html">[Mageia-dev] cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista (war Re: rehashing the faac issue) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="019734.html">[Mageia-dev] cinelerra/audiokonverter/arista (war Re: rehashing the faac issue) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#19733">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#19733">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#19733">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#19733">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |