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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-May/015965.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-May/015965.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3d6d48709 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-May/015965.html @@ -0,0 +1,232 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] [RFC] radeon firmware in non-free + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%5BRFC%5D%20radeon%20firmware%20in%20non-free&In-Reply-To=%3C4FC5EC71.8030800%40mageia.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="015964.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="015967.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] [RFC] radeon firmware in non-free</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%5BRFC%5D%20radeon%20firmware%20in%20non-free&In-Reply-To=%3C4FC5EC71.8030800%40mageia.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] [RFC] radeon firmware in non-free">tmb at mageia.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed May 30 11:46:25 CEST 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="015964.html">[Mageia-dev] [RFC] radeon firmware in non-free +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="015967.html">[Mageia-dev] [RFC] radeon firmware in non-free +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#15965">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#15965">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#15965">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#15965">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>30.05.2012 12:23, Thierry Vignaud skrev: +><i> On 30 May 2012 11:09, Thomas Backlund<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at mageia.org</A>> wrote: +</I>>>><i> I think we must discuss the following point for next release: +</I>>>><i> currently radeon firmwares are in non-free. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> However this break havoc quite a lot of install b/c by default +</I>>>><i> non-free is not enabled. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> So its an installer issue. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No it's a policy issue. +</I>><i> media.cfg enforces not installing firmwares by default. +</I>><i> But builders of live cds overrides this. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Which is inconsistent +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, it was a old design decision we followed for livecds... + +><i> Maybe should we split firmwares in another medium that should: +</I>><i> - be enabled by default +</I>><i> - be included in the install ISOs +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> 1) This makes the Mageia experience horrible on some machines +</I>>>><i> (black screen, machines unusable by newbies (and worse +</I>>>><i> unrecoverable by newbies), ...) +</I>>>><i> Newer ATI/AMD cards cannot work w/o the needed firmware. +</I>>>><i> That's also the issue with several network cards. +</I>>>><i> (which makes network installation impossible by default) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> So people should think twice about what hw they want to buy/use. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Come on you're trolling. +</I>><i> What's more, _YOU_ are the one building live cds with proprietary drivers... :-) +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, I have no problem dropping them from livecds again as I can use +the space... + +It did work for mga1 (as there were no prebuilt proprietary drivers then) + +><i> That is totally inconsistent. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Other distros either use proprietary drivers or free drivers with the +</I>><i> needed firmwares. +</I>><i> We do the first (live-cd) and the worst of all choices: free drivers +</I>><i> w/o the needed firmwares (install ISO) +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> 2) this is unlike the live-cd where we've those firmwares (and +</I>>>><i> the proprietary drivers as well) +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> This is because you cant install rpms on live media... +</I>>><i> (or you can, but as the change is gone with a reboot, +</I>>><i> there is not much point) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yet it is inconsistent. +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> 3) This is unlike other "pure" FOSS distro such as Fedora +</I>>>><i> which includes the firmwares. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Well, that's their choice, not ours... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Offering the choice between working proprietary drivers +</I>><i> and NOT working free drivers is somewhat stupid don't you think? +</I>><i> +</I> +So we need to fix the hw/driver detection/switching and not just +"paper over" it by pulling nonfree stuff by default + +><i> +</I>>>><i> So we offer the choice between: +</I>>>><i> - either be able to choose between working proprietary driver and +</I>>>><i> working free driver +</I>>>><i> - or to have non working free driver +</I>>>><i> This is _INSANE_. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> I think It's time we reconsider this. +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Firmwares do not run on the main CPU. +</I>>>><i> They're needed for additional chips where no one will ever +</I>>>><i> ever write a program for. +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> From the main CPU/memory view point they're data. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> But not from our perspective about free-only. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then why do you promote proprietary drivers on live cds :-) ? +</I>><i> Again this is totally inconsistent... +</I>><i> +</I> +So I guess we need to fix livecds by either dropping proprietary +stuff, or make the display_driver_helper ask if user wants to +boot with proprietary stuff or not... + + +><i> And nobody will ever wrote an alternative firmware anyway... +</I>><i> And in most cases, nobody knows how the internal works. +</I>><i> And for the AMD/ATI case, the free driver won't pick directly at the +</I>><i> hardware but will use AtomBIOS to level differences between +</I>><i> hw (remember the radeonhd fiasco). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Who will rewrite the AMD firmwares for all radeon generations +</I>><i> and/or make the driver work without Atom BIOS ?? +</I>><i> Come on... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What we're actually promoting to our end users is that free drivers +</I>><i> suck whereas the live cds with proprietary drivers works smoothly. +</I>><i> +</I> +Again, this is hw specific. + +There is Intel, nouveau, sis,... that does not need fw/proprietary drivers. + + +><i> That's a total aberration regarding promoting FOSS +</I> +Well, it's also a simple truth/fact. +Not all hw is fully FOSS supported. + +><i> +</I>>>><i> I think we should offer the choice to: +</I>>>><i> - either be able to choose between working proprietary driver and +</I>>>><i> working free driver +</I>>>><i> - or to have _working_ free driver +</I>>>><i> (that is including the needed firmwares) +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> As pointed out in earlier discussions about this issue... +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> There is 2 points needing fix. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> - the installer should detect the need for nonfree, and ask if people +</I>>><i> want to enable it. (or simply ask if user want to add nonfree media) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm actually planning to add a media screen in cauldron installer so that +</I>><i> one can enable/disable media. +</I>><i> +</I> +Great. + +><i> But that needs to actually include a nonfree/release subset on the install +</I>><i> ISO so that those w/o network can enable it. +</I>><i> +</I> +Or ask for additional media pointed out below. + +><i> Detecting need for non-free could then be done (looking at modinfo +</I>><i> output for needed modules) +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> - the other thing to fix is to change the installer option about +</I>>><i> "additional CD" to "additional media" and allow for browsing for +</I>>><i> additional rpms on a cd/dvd/disk/usb/... media. +</I> +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="015964.html">[Mageia-dev] [RFC] radeon firmware in non-free +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="015967.html">[Mageia-dev] [RFC] radeon firmware in non-free +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#15965">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#15965">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#15965">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#15965">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |