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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-March/013369.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-March/013369.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9b4d1039f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-March/013369.html @@ -0,0 +1,203 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20installing%20minimal%20is%20not%20really%20that%20minimal&In-Reply-To=%3C4F6B1616.3060404%40gmx.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="013364.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="013367.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal</H1> + <B>Kamil Rytarowski</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20installing%20minimal%20is%20not%20really%20that%20minimal&In-Reply-To=%3C4F6B1616.3060404%40gmx.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal">n54 at gmx.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Mar 22 13:07:50 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="013364.html">[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="013367.html">[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#13369">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#13369">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#13369">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#13369">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 22.03.2012 10:48, Anne nicolas wrote: +><i> 2012/3/22 Thierry Vignaud<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">thierry.vignaud at gmail.com</A>>: +</I>>><i> On 22 March 2012 09:31, You-Cheng Hsieh<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">yochenhsieh at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>>>><i> note that having a couple x11 package is not installing x11. +</I>>>>><i> I've made the minimal install quite a lot smaller. +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> We still have issues with suggests that makes installation explodes. +</I>>>>><i> I've reports some bugs but maintainers just don't care. +</I>>>>><i> See eg: <A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357">https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357</A> that got +</I>>>>><i> reaffected to me because the maintainer doesn't care about +</I>>>>><i> bloating the install +</I>>>>><i> This particular one isn't about minimal install but about gnome install +</I>>>>><i> but the underlying issue will bloats any minimal install + light desktop +</I>>>>><i> + _one_ gtk+ application. +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Both gnome-keyring and task-gnome are maintained by nobody, could you +</I>>>><i> modify the spec and close the bug? +</I>>><i> I've made quite some changes for mga2 in order to bring minimal +</I>>><i> install under control. +</I>>><i> But that can't work in the long term. +</I>>><i> I'ven't enough time& I cannot do it alone. +</I>>><i> I did it twice back @mdv and yet people keep introduced new interesting +</I>>><i> ways to bloat again. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I don't want to imply Olav did it. But he's packager of one of the offending +</I>>><i> packages, and so inherited part of mdv heritage. +</I>>><i> So I wrote a bug about it in order to pull maintainers in. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Every packager should be made aware of Implications of: +</I>>><i> - suggests +</I>>><i> - library requiring the tools they were created for +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> It's easy to add a suggest ("hey it'll just make the user experience better"), +</I>>><i> but eventually the suggested package can start a cycles that will pull +</I>>><i> quite a lot more packages. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> See <A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357#c5">https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4357#c5</A> +</I>>><i> systemd was initially pulling: +</I>>><i> - the whole gtk+ stack, +</I>>><i> - openldap, +</I>>><i> - avahi, +</I>>><i> - gamin, +</I>>><i> - fuse, +</I>>><i> - colord, +</I>>><i> - gnome-keyring, +</I>>><i> - seahorse, +</I>>><i> - dirmngr +</I>>><i> - python +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> And none of it (but python) has actually to do with systemd. +</I>>><i> It was just that required library actually suggest or requires another one +</I>>><i> which also suggested or required ... +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Everyone should be concerned about that. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I've broke some requires/suggest cycles, but I cannot do it alone, +</I>>><i> everyone should contribute (and also should try not to introduce +</I>>><i> new ones) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I think that some of those "comfort" suggests should be moved +</I>>><i> from some low level library or tool package to task-<desktop> +</I>>><i> packages. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Thus no I won't fix every issue. +</I>>><i> People have to test install and have to get interested in reducing +</I>>><i> size of install. +</I>>><i> This is not a personal attack against Olav that does a good job. +</I>>><i> That means for everyone to get in the implications of requires& +</I>>><i> suggests. +</I>>><i> Not looking only at that particular package but at the global view, +</I>>><i> the installed system. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Not all suggests will bloat installing from DVD as some won't make +</I>>><i> it into the DVD image. But some will b/c they're required by other +</I>>><i> packages and thus will succeed in being suggested. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Minimal install won't be as perfect as installing basesystem with urpmi +</I>>><i> because of installer also pulling packages needed for HW (eg: LVM, +</I>>><i> SMP, bluetooth, ...) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> At least for mga2, it's has been reduced. +</I>>><i> But it could be more. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Also installing a desktop (GNOME& KDE) is huge these days. +</I>>><i> Something should be made about it. +</I>>><i> Maybe splitting task-{gnome,kde}-networking and the like and moving +</I>>><i> them under CAT_NETWORK, CAT_OFFICE, CAT_GAMES, CAT_INTERNET, +</I>>><i> CAT_MULTIMEDIA and the like in rpmsrate. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> But this is the job of everyone. +</I>>><i> Not just me. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> My 2 cents +</I>><i> Thanks for your proposal. But anyway this is for Mageia 3. Could we +</I>><i> please calm down and focus again on coming release? We do have work +</I>><i> enough for everybody :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Cheers +</I>><i> +</I>Yes, I completely agree. + +This is a key value for the quality of distro. We can't force everyone +to use in the most minimal setup for example rmt ("Provides certain +programs with access to remote tape devices.") as a requirement of cpio +and so rpm! or sound scripts as a requirement of init-scripts... + +I have got a remote server and I really don't want to be forced to have +full sound support, themed boolloader and rmt support on that computer. + +This is a goal for Mga3, I have in mind some tools to help resolving the +dependency hell. +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="013364.html">[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="013367.html">[Mageia-dev] installing minimal is not really that minimal +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#13369">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#13369">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#13369">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#13369">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |