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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011279.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011279.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..201756563 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011279.html @@ -0,0 +1,162 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20please%20stop%20doing%20%22bugs%22%20for%20updating%20magia%201&In-Reply-To=%3C201201121319.02572.bgmilne%40zarb.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="011277.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="011288.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1</H1> + <B>Buchan Milne</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20please%20stop%20doing%20%22bugs%22%20for%20updating%20magia%201&In-Reply-To=%3C201201121319.02572.bgmilne%40zarb.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1">bgmilne at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Jan 12 12:19:02 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011277.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011288.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11279">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11279">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11279">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11279">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday, 12 January 2012 11:27:59 Antoine Pitrou wrote: +><i> On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:05:34 +0200 +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Buchan Milne <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">bgmilne at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > An approach that doens't include a bug filed with the distribution means +</I>><i> > the user doesn't really seem interested in receiving an update from the +</I>><i> > distribution. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Do note there are bugs that may go unnoticed by the user even though +</I>><i> they are affected (for example if they have to do with resource +</I>><i> consumption or subtle data corruption or other reliability stuff). +</I> +Right, and in most cases, upstreams should make enough noise about issues like +that so maintainers know to push an update. Upstreams that don't are +irresponsible, or have their heads in the ground. + +><i> > If you just want every new piece of software as soon as possible, you +</I>><i> > should run Cauldron. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Obviously, that's not what I want. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > 1)Why users who are not affected by some obscure bug (e.g. typo in a man +</I>><i> > page they will never read) should be forced to download unnecessary +</I>><i> > packages (at high cost in some cases) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is already the case. Regularly Mageia suggests me updates that I +</I>><i> have not asked for since I have not filed a bug for them (and may not +</I>><i> even be affected). +</I> +'users who are unaffected' and 'I didn't ask for an update' are vastly +different things. But, it seems you also don't want to get an unnecessarily +huge volume of updates ... + +><i> Besides, your example is silly: I don't know of a software project that +</I>><i> makes new releases only to fix typos in man pages. Bugfix releases *do* +</I>><i> contain worthwhile fixes. +</I> +Sure, but on average, probably 75% or more of the software in a release will +have some upstream release that has at least one bugfix in it per year, does +that mean that we should ship updates to 75% of the packages for each +supported distro every year? + +><i> > 2)How you will identify all upstreams which have a good history of +</I>><i> > bugfix-only releases, and how you will automate the selection of these +</I>><i> > packages to go to updates, and how you will streamline this process +</I>><i> > through QA. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Each packager can decide if their upstream package is well-behaved or +</I>><i> not. Of course, better be conservative and not package bugfix releases +</I>><i> if you aren't totally confident. Still, some upstream teams *are* +</I>><i> well-behaved. +</I> +Right, and this is (mostly) done, although IMHO the updates policy needs to be +updated to make this more explicit. + +><i> > Anyway, you seem to be of the assumption that all the contributors to the +</I>><i> > distribution you are using have so much more time on their hands than you +</I>><i> > do, while in actual fact I believe almost all contributors are *very* +</I>><i> > contstrained on time. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Relying on upstream for bug fixes may actually free some of the time +</I>><i> spent doing custom patching and testing. +</I> +You assume: +1)Upstream and packager have no relationship +2)Bugfixes are done in isolation + +><i> But I agree volunteer time is a +</I>><i> big blocker in most open source projects. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > If you don't think it is worth your time to help out, why should we +</I>><i> > waste time (which could be used to ensure the next release has all +</I>><i> > bugfixes) on new bugfix releases we don't need? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Usually bugs are fixed for a reason (i.e. they affect someone +</I>><i> somewhere). Why you think people don't need bug fixes is beyond me: +</I> +That wasn't the argument. The argument is that there is a cost to every +update, and the question that has to be answered is whether the minimal +improvement in some package is worth the time, effort, resource, bandwidth +involved, or whether the user is better served by having a completely up-to- +date minimal-bug-affected-release 2 months later, than having 1000 updates +shipped every month and a new low quality release in 2 months, which forces +more updates down their expensive internet connection, leaving them with a +high cost, low quality experience. + +><i> Mageia users aren't, presumably, more stupid / more careless than users +</I>><i> of other distributions. +</I> +No, but the point of Mageia is to provide a usable distribution, not one where +you get breakage every 2nd week due to supposed 'bugfix' releases of new +software. + +Regards, +Buchan +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011277.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011288.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11279">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11279">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11279">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11279">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |