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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-February/011912.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-February/011912.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8a635c779 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-February/011912.html @@ -0,0 +1,186 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2 + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%5Bchangelog%5D%20%5BRPM%5D%20cauldron%20core/release%0A%09task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2&In-Reply-To=%3C4F3952F2.7040405%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="011911.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="011914.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%5Bchangelog%5D%20%5BRPM%5D%20cauldron%20core/release%0A%09task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2&In-Reply-To=%3C4F3952F2.7040405%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2">andre999mga at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Feb 13 19:14:10 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011911.html">[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011914.html">[Mageia-dev] Beta 1 isos +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11912">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11912">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11912">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11912">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael Scherer a écrit : +><i> Le lundi 13 février 2012 à 10:35 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> On 13 February 2012 10:05, Olav Vitters<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">olav at vitters.nl</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> +</I>>>>><i> - Suggests drakconf in minimal package +</I>>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Why as part of task-gnome*, shouldn't it be a require elsewhere? +</I>>>><i> +</I>>><i> 1) for symmetry with task-kde4-minimal +</I>>><i> It should be done in task-{lxde,xfce,..} of course +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Then it should be documented, because currently, task-* is polluted. +</I>><i> Since everybody add his pet peeves packages as task-*, that cause the +</I>><i> same problem that was intended to solve, ie too much choice. People have +</I>><i> the warm fuzzy feeling of having a selected and taylored set of rpm, but +</I>><i> that's far from the truth. +</I>><i> +</I> +Right. + +><i> Also, it abuses suggests and interact in a weird way with auto-orphans +</I>><i> ( or it should be better to say that it make it dangerous for users to +</I>><i> use the feature, thanks to the lack of semantics for Suggests, coupled +</I>><i> with lack of clear semantics on task-* and the abuse of the 2nd one by +</I>><i> the first one coupled with a too simple UI ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> 2) so that people performing minimal install then installing task-foobar +</I>>><i> got mcc too +</I>>><i> (it's done at installer time through rpmsrate which is not used after +</I>>><i> installation by urpmi -- else nothing will pull it[1]) +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> So basically, that's duplication of information ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> 3) because that's the right place to do it +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Note it's a suggests, not a hard requires +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> Suggests semantics are still unclear. For now, that's "let me use this +</I>><i> to push totally unrelated packages in the default setup because I think +</I>><i> they should be installed but I have no way to explain why, and they are +</I>><i> important but not important enough to be documented or selected at +</I>><i> runtime". And that's far from being ideal. +</I>><i> +</I> +I have exactly the same impression. +It gets messy to clean up unwanted packages. + +><i> In fact, the more I can think of, the more I wonder what was the problem +</I>><i> we wanted to solve with Suggests, and if we really did. The UI is near 0 +</I>><i> and will be for a long time, since there isn't enough expressiveness in +</I>><i> a rpm tag for that. Advanced users, who are concerned with deps and what +</I>><i> is installed either remove suggests ( my case, because it pull lots of +</I>><i> unneeded stuff ), or just do without it for finding related packages +</I>><i> ( because you still need to look on why something is pulled, and you +</I>><i> cannot really select ( not that asking a 100 questions would be good +</I>><i> OTOH )). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Less advanced users do not care at all about suggests in the best case +</I>><i> ( ie, it solved almost nothing for them ), and end with auto-orphans +</I>><i> doing weird stuff. It also have a weird interaction model on upgrade +</I>><i> ( like "if task-kde4 is installed, do I want to also pull all suggests, +</I>><i> even those I removed, or do I want to not do it, and then end with a +</I>><i> different result than from a fresh installation" ) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So I would suggests ( no pun intended ) to just drop them. Keeping them +</I>><i> make us diverge from upstream, afaik, requires various hack with some +</I>><i> side effect and extra documentation for almost nothing ( ie, since we +</I>><i> may not have solved a real problem ), and think to do think another way. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>This discussion reminds me of a model I'd like to see for task packages. +Thinking of rpmdrake. +Task packages show a tree of the packages to be installed. +Each required package simply shows a link to its' description. (As one +sees now for required packages.) +Each suggested package package shows justifying description line, in +addition to a link to its' description. And a check box to deselect the +item, so it is not installed. + +So for example we wouldn't need a separate task-gnome and +task-gnome-minimal, since task-gnome would have everything more than +minimal as an option (or suggest). + +We would have to have some means to indicate suggests already installed, +among other factors. + +Although I see this model as primarily useful for task packages, it +could apply to any package with requires or suggests. +The concept is not new, it at least used to exist in the Microsoft +environment for larger packages. + +Just an idea :) + +-- +André + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011911.html">[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011914.html">[Mageia-dev] Beta 1 isos +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11912">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11912">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11912">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11912">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |