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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-April/013993.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-April/013993.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..dc3c52a10 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-April/013993.html @@ -0,0 +1,140 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%3D%3Fiso-8859-1%3Fq%3Fpainful_discussion_n%3DB01%3D3A_debloatin%3F%3D%0A%09%3D%3Fiso-8859-1%3Fq%3Fg%3F%3D&In-Reply-To=%3C4F805F7F.5030705%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="014064.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="013995.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating</H1> + <B>Guillaume Rousse</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%3D%3Fiso-8859-1%3Fq%3Fpainful_discussion_n%3DB01%3D3A_debloatin%3F%3D%0A%09%3D%3Fiso-8859-1%3Fq%3Fg%3F%3D&In-Reply-To=%3C4F805F7F.5030705%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating">guillomovitch at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Apr 7 17:38:39 CEST 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="014064.html">[Mageia-dev] freeze push: munin +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="013995.html">[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#13993">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#13993">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#13993">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#13993">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>If thos of you lucky enough to have missed the beginning of the story, +here are the importants parts: +- first round: bug #4357, still marked as release blocker (despite a bit +excessive IMHO) +- second round: discussion on -dev, archived here: +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/013342.html">https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/013342.html</A> + +The whole issue turns around the unfortunate consequence of adding new +dependencies, for various reasons, between packages and in installer: +bloated minimal installation. In this case, this is about a specific +*soft* dependency from gnome-keyring to seahorse, which has painful +consequences, as outline by TV in comment #5 of the original report. + +Suggestion sofar for this initial problem have been suggested: +1) move the gnome-keyring -> seahorse soft dependency either in +task-gnome, or task-gnome-minimal +2) turn the mandatory dependency between libgnome-keyring to +gnome-keyring into a soft dependency +3) remove the dependency on a gnome component from the KDE category in +the installer + +But sofar, nothing was done AFAIK, the bug is still open. + + From my own personal and biased reading, solution #3, makes sense. +Actually, it would only adress a part of the problem, as installing the +distribution doesn't mandatorily means 'running the installer'. chroot +installation, for instance, or automated installations, are not affected +by rpmsrate, but still face side-effect of those nasty 'useful' +dependencies between packages. Of course, this only concern expert +users, who usually know about --no-suggest urpmi option. + +Solution #1 would also make some sense for me. As pointed out by TV, you +don't mandatorily install gnome-keyring because you need it, but because +you don't have the choice, and something else introduced it without +asking you. That's a bit difficult to argue in this case that you may +need seahorse to manage your keys, merely because you problably never +intended to store keys anyway. So I'd also implement this solution, +despite once again, if you really care, you may use --no-suggest also. + +Solution #2, tough, would introduce some precedent. AFAIK, all gnome +libs unfortunatly require their binaries to be installed alongside to be +used, for I can't remember technical reason. So, I'd rather reject it. + +To summarize it: +- has anyone any opposition to remove the totem-mozilla - KDE +relationship in the installer ? +- Olav (or anyone else), do you have any objection to *also* move the +soft dependency from gnome-keyring to seahorse to either task-gnome or +task-gnome-minimal ? + +More generally, we still lack a clear view of interactions between +choice hardcoded in installer rpmsrate, and two different kind of +dependencies between packages. And a general policy on this kind of +issues, aiming a correct balance between 'avoinding poor users the pain +of installing additional stuff themselves' and 'keeping system minimal'. +-- +BOFH excuse #189: + +SCSI's too wide. +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="014064.html">[Mageia-dev] freeze push: munin +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="013995.html">[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#13993">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#13993">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#13993">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#13993">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |