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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-September/008089.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-September/008089.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..69a96b479 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-September/008089.html @@ -0,0 +1,221 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Meeting tonight + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Meeting%20tonight&In-Reply-To=%3CCAONrEtYaWLtBcZaOhExesy8D_NUJg135eGD7B%3D6DOUvBxF5m-A%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="008075.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="008119.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Meeting tonight</H1> + <B>Thierry Vignaud</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Meeting%20tonight&In-Reply-To=%3CCAONrEtYaWLtBcZaOhExesy8D_NUJg135eGD7B%3D6DOUvBxF5m-A%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Meeting tonight">thierry.vignaud at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Sep 15 11:26:41 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="008075.html">[Mageia-dev] Meeting tonight +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="008119.html">[Mageia-dev] Meeting tonight +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#8089">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#8089">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#8089">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#8089">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 14 September 2011 17:50, Samuel Verschelde <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">stormi at laposte.net</A>> wrote: +><i> I don't know if it's the right meeting for it, but I would like us to talk +</I>><i> again about bug 2317 <A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2317">https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2317</A> that blocks +</I>><i> updates +</I>><i> We tried to previously chosen solution "link from Release to Updates", but we +</I>><i> run into dependency nightmares such as in the end the solution would almost +</I>><i> lead to copy the whole Release media into Updates. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Without proof of the contrary, +</I> +what? +No it's not and I've already explained many times. +See below + +><i> I tend to think that fixing MageiaUpdate would +</I>><i> be a lot less work than the workaround we are trying to use which : +</I>><i> - still needs work from the sysadmins +</I>><i> - gives a lot of work to QA, that would be better used for testing the updates +</I>><i> - forces us to link a lot of packages if we really want to make sure the +</I>><i> update never fails +</I> +For now, we are in the same configuration as @ mdv: +the updates must be self host, if they add new +requires, these must be added to the repository to update. + +This was decided a long time ago after thinking + +Some people have the media networks, ie all packages +can be fetched. +Others will have only DVD media and thus only have a subset +of packages. +Other disable certain media. +Other activate some other media (backports). +Some will have non-free and/or tainted enabled, some won't. +Ie there is no guarantee that a packet with new requires +can be updated on all machines as end users will have +a variety of packages subset. + +For almost 10 years MandrivaUpdate == "urpmi --update" +and not "urpmi --auto-select" + +I think that for the already released mga1 we should stick +to the known good old working method, the MDV's one, +rather than inventing a new quick & dirty thing quickly whom we'll +find subtle bugs along the incoming month + +Some suggested removing the --update flag that MgaUpdate +"gives" to urpmi. + +I think most of them ignore what kind of problems that would bring, +they haven't made any tests at all: + +1) we know there will be cases where it won't work + (see above those with the DVD media and not the full network + media, some new dependencies won't be found on the DVD, ...). + Multiply by those who have installed 32 DVD, 64 DVD, dual arch DVD, ... + There are lots of different scenarios to deal with ... + +2) what's more, its not the time to do so, X months after the release + +3) MgaUpdate will be _much_ slower (compare the startup time + of rpmdrake vs MgaUpdate) because all synthesis + have to be parsed, then we need to compute / verify a far greater + number of potential updates ... (and it's _not_ O(n)) + just look at how much faster to start is mgaupdate vs rpmdrake) + It will also consume a lot more RAM + +4) that means that we must also update mgaonline to change the way + it computes if there any available updates (so that it + doesn't reject/ignore updates with missing Requires that can + be resolved from */release + +5) That means mgaapplet too will use quite a lot more time in + order to compute if there any updates + + 6) That means mgaaplet will consume more RAM when + it checks the updates (more exactly the son process it + forks) + however people are already complaining about RAM usage + in mgapapplet + +7) rpmdrake behavior may change in unforeseen ways + (because a a shared algorithm will changes) + +8) Fred Lepied, Frederic Crozat & Warly have removed quite + a lot of code everywhere since that policy went years (nearly + a decade ago) + that means there're a lot of tools that need potential patching + (urpmi, rpmdrake, mgaonline, ...) + for eg: checking for missing media, ... + +In short, it's quite a lot more work and quite a lot more risky than +"just" not using the --update "flag" as some think. +They only see that it will be less work for them (the +work previously done by mdv's secteam for years, that is check +for new introduced requires and if yes add them to the update media) +It can just blow up in quite a lot of places: +- Updates that'll work for some and not for others depending + on which media are enabled +- slower Mgaupdate +- Mgaupdate consuming more RAM +- slower Mgaapplet +- Mgaapplet consuming more RAM + +IMHO it's obviously too risky to do such a major change and I failed +to see why we cannot work the mdv way. + +For the _next_ release, we can test & try to use --media and look if: +performance doesn't drop too much +But we'll still have the same issues: +- Disparate media (various DVDs flavour vs network, ...) +- Performance: the fact that one can have quite a lot media: + (3 (or 6 on biarch) updates media vs 9 (or 18 on biarch) media [1] + even 15 or 30 (biarch) media for those who activate + backport ledia [2]. +- algorithm consistency: it must work for those who enable backports + and those who don't, for those who enables tainted/non-free but not + non-free/tainted , .... + +This must be thought about. +Will you? +Will you provides patches, test scenario and do the testing? + +my 2 cents + +[1] 3 (release / testing / update) x 3 (core / non-free / tainted) +[2] 5 (release / testing / update / backport / backport_testing) x 3 +(Core / non-free / tainted) + +><i> What I would like is a firm and courageous decision +</I> +no comment... + +><i> (we already talked a lot of +</I>><i> this issue without much progress until now) that we set a date (soon) before +</I>><i> which this problem will be completely solved, whatever the way. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We really would like to have this issue solved and allow to concentrate on +</I>><i> other important stuff (such as security updates for example). +</I></PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="008075.html">[Mageia-dev] Meeting tonight +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="008119.html">[Mageia-dev] Meeting tonight +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#8089">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#8089">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#8089">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#8089">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |