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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-November/009262.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-November/009262.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..449e83f18 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-November/009262.html @@ -0,0 +1,183 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Review Of Bugs + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Review%20Of%20Bugs&In-Reply-To=%3C1320103958.2218.78.camel%40localhost%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="009267.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Review Of Bugs</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Review%20Of%20Bugs&In-Reply-To=%3C1320103958.2218.78.camel%40localhost%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Review Of Bugs">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Nov 1 00:32:38 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="009267.html">[Mageia-dev] Review Of Bugs +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#9262">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#9262">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#9262">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#9262">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le lundi 31 octobre 2011 à 22:16 +0000, Colin Guthrie a écrit : +><i> 'Twas brillig, and Michael Scherer at 31/10/11 21:44 did gyre and gimble: +</I>><i> > Le lundi 31 octobre 2011 à 21:06 +0000, Colin Guthrie a écrit : +</I>><i> >> 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 31/10/11 20:55 did gyre and gimble: +</I>><i> >>> Op maandag 31 oktober 2011 21:34:04 schreef D.Morgan: +</I>><i> >>> [...] +</I>><i> >>>>> But seriously, if we can't maintain/fix something like chromium-browser, +</I>><i> >>>>> we should just drop it completely, maybe have a get-chromium package +</I>><i> >>>>> instead +</I>><i> >>>> +</I>><i> >>>> why ? i package it regularly and tvignaud too. +</I>><i> >>>> what about dropping all packages that have bugs ? this is just stupid +</I>><i> >>>> and you should first ask ppl packaging it before giving such ideas +</I>><i> >>> +</I>><i> >>> ok, i get it, (allthough i did say "IF") I guess it's a misguided attempt of +</I>><i> >>> myself to get more maintainership... +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> I think the attempts to get more official partnerships by Samuel and +</I>><i> >> yourself are very valuable, but by the same token, I think we need to +</I>><i> >> accept that having a single maintainer for some packages just doens't +</I>><i> >> make sense. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >> For example things like initscripts, udev, systemd etc. should be +</I>><i> >> maintained by a "core" team, and IMO, not a single person (tho' if +</I>><i> >> someone steps up and is proven to be reliable then this is obviously not +</I>><i> >> a bad thing per-se!). I'm certainly happy to help out here. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Well, so far, the system do not support this. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Indeed. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > So either this supposed team is able to organise itself to have one of +</I>><i> > the member to act as a gate to take maitainership and dispatch task +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think both socially and expectation wise, being a the gatekeeper in +</I>><i> such context still carries a lot of responsibility that people would not +</I>><i> feel too comfortable with, nor would there necessarily be the social +</I>><i> hierarchy where said gatekeeper would feel sufficiently authorised to +</I>><i> dish out tasks to others. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > or someone patch the maintdb script to have more than one person. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This would be better, or perhaps "team accounts" can be created which +</I>><i> forward mail to the members rather than having multiple maintainers.. +</I> +There would be several problem with that : + +- that would would break the assumption we used in our ldap of 1 account += 1 person, assumption that we used every where in the auth system. For +example, on the bugzilla settings, or seeing the bug that are assigned + +- that would also have the side effect of having some package not +managed while appearing as such. For example, unless all maintainer are +equally skilled, we will not + +- that doesn't solve the issues of "who decide who get in the group". +That's a basic gouvernance issue that I ask each time the question +arise, and that is never answered AFAIK. + +The more important problem is not really technical, as I said in the +past, but really organisational. + +The proposal of a core team will just mean we have a 2 tier hierarchy of +maintainer, like we did in the past with main/contribs. Except that it +doesn't solve the issue of having thing not really maintained. +( and that's not really very egalitarian IMHO ) + +If people in the core team cannot solve all problems, ie, if we have +specialization ( which seems unavoidable IMHO ), we still need to know +who can do something, hence some way to find who maintain something. + +What if the team take care of gcc, glibc, systemd, but there is only 1 +person knowing enough gcc out of X ? How do we see there is a problem +when this person say "I cannot do my work for now/I leave". + +Who ultimately decide if needed ? + +><i> > As long as "being managed by several people" will be seen the same way +</I>><i> > as "maintained by nobody", we will have the same problem as mandriva. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Personally I don't buy that explanation. Of course it can be true in +</I>><i> some cases (everyone just waits for someone else to fix it) but I +</I>><i> suspect the odds of things getting fixed is still much higher than when +</I>><i> a package is officially maintained by nobody... +</I> +Yet, there is several studies on the social proof ( one of the most +affordable is the book from Robert Cialdiani, see the chapter about it +). + +On a side note, the issue is not to put more packagers to solve more +bugs, but to put the right person in charge. The maintainer db is the +way we use for the first step for maintainer. Now if a packager want +help, he can simply ask. + +But in the end, if no step to do anything, the bug will still be there. + +><i> > Being maintained officially by someone do not prevent others to help. +</I>><i> > So I do not see any good reason to have them marked as nobody. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I certainly don't expect a package maintained by a team to be marked as +</I>><i> nobody (well, certainly not longer term). +</I> +Yet, that's exactly what happen at Mandriva since years, and that's the +problem. Ie, if we do not start to solve the issue now, it will just +stay as longer term as usual. + +Ie, there is lots of rpm marked as unmaintained that are not, and lots +that are marked as maintained. + +And for now, the choice are either "nobody", or "someone". Anything else +is not coded, and therefor do not exist. + +><i> But again, I think even +</I>><i> allocating a gatekeeper or a team leader puts too many social pressures +</I>><i> on that person, and imposes something of a hierarchy that really doesn't +</I>><i> seem appropriate. Also things don't happen automatically - such as all +</I>><i> the team members getting CC'ed on bugzilla etc which would make it quite +</I>><i> a lot of admin work for said gatekeeper on top of the actual bug fixes +</I>><i> which again I think is too much. +</I> +Without leader, who decide who access the group ? Who dispatch the work, +decide the software managed by the group ? And so how is this better +than now ? + + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="009267.html">[Mageia-dev] Review Of Bugs +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#9262">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#9262">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#9262">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#9262">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |