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How to backport?</H1> + <B>Samuel Verschelde</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Missing%20packages%20in%20Mageia%201.%20How%20to%20backport%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201106111803.12179.stormi%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Missing packages in Mageia 1. How to backport?">stormi at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Jun 11 18:03:12 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005409.html">[Mageia-dev] Missing packages in Mageia 1. How to backport? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005419.html">[Mageia-dev] Missing packages in Mageia 1. How to backport? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5410">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5410">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5410">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5410">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le samedi 11 juin 2011 18:01:54, Maarten Vanraes a écrit : +><i> Op zaterdag 11 juni 2011 16:55:00 schreef Samuel Verschelde: +</I>><i> > Le samedi 11 juin 2011 14:26:19, Maarten Vanraes a écrit : +</I>><i> > > Op zaterdag 11 juni 2011 13:14:29 schreef Samuel Verschelde: +</I>><i> > > > Le samedi 11 juin 2011 12:06:55, Christiaan Welvaart a écrit : +</I>><i> > > > > On Fri, 10 Jun 2011, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> > > > > > We can agree that everybody want something newer for some rpms, +</I>><i> > > > > > but few people want everything to be newer ( ie, now one run +</I>><i> > > > > > backports as a update media, I think ). So as much as I am +</I>><i> > > > > > against asking to users questions, we must show them the choice +</I>><i> > > > > > somewhere, in a non obstrusive way. +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > Maybe, but how would be "support" this? We must be able to +</I>><i> > > > > reproduce a reported problem. This becomes complicated when we +</I>><i> > > > > don't know what is installed on the user's system. A guideline for +</I>><i> > > > > bug reporters is (or should be) "make sure you installed the +</I>><i> > > > > latest updates". What would be the equivalent for backports? I'm +</I>><i> > > > > afraid it should be "if you installed any backports, make sure you +</I>><i> > > > > installed all backports that are relevant for your system". If +</I>><i> > > > > someone has a problem with any other combination, the bug report +</I>><i> > > > > might be rejected. How would QA even work when only selected +</I>><i> > > > > packages are upgraded from backports, or integration testing: +</I>><i> > > > > integration with what? +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > So the only combinations we can support are: +</I>><i> > > > > - release + updates +</I>><i> > > > > - release + updates + backports +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > More practical: for mga1 I have a VM that I can keep updated. For +</I>><i> > > > > mga1 backports I can install another VM with backports enabled. But +</I>><i> > > > > for bugs reported with only selected backports installed I suppose +</I>><i> > > > > I would have to install a new VM with mga1, update it, and install +</I>><i> > > > > only those backports - +</I>><i> > > > > +</I>><i> > > > > for each bug report. But maybe I'm missing something, please +</I>><i> > > > > explain. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> (: +</I>><i> > > > If we suppose that either updates or backports are supported (with a +</I>><i> > > > support level to be defined), the situation is simpler to me : a +</I>><i> > > > good backport must work with all its dependencies coming from +</I>><i> > > > updates or release OR it must explicitly require higher versions, +</I>><i> > > > found only in the backports media and so automatically pulled. +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > So I don't think that having picked up only certain backported +</I>><i> > > > packages is a problem for the maintainer's support. Maybe I +</I>><i> > > > over-simplified the situation, but I don't think it will be as +</I>><i> > > > complex as you say. +</I>><i> > > > +</I>><i> > > > Samuel +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > imho this creates more work for packagers or qa team to support +</I>><i> > > backports, i'm not really in favor of this solution +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > So it someone has a problem with a package you backported and reports it +</I>><i> > in bugzilla, you'll answer "not supported" and close the door ? Then we +</I>><i> > have not a single chance to have users accept to use backports rather +</I>><i> > than ask for a rolling release (supposing that we want to stay with +</I>><i> > stable releases model, which hasn't been decided yet). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > In my opinion, a backport must be either supported or not exist. Even in +</I>><i> > Mandriva, where everybody keep saying "backports ain't supported", +</I>><i> > usually people try to solve the problems caused by backports. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > However, the level of support can be different between backports and +</I>><i> > updates, as I said in my previous message. The differences are yet to +</I>><i> > define, but here are some I see : +</I>><i> > - when a critical bug in a backport exists, you can simply update to a +</I>><i> > newer version and see if it's solved +</I>><i> > - if the program already is in its the latest version and has an upstream +</I>><i> > bug, you can answer "report the bug upstream" and stop there until +</I>><i> > upstream solves the bug. For packages in release or updates, ideally you +</I>><i> > have to try to help fixing it or work it around because the bug is +</I>><i> > considered part of the whole distribution. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Best regards +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Samuel +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What about security fixes? if there's 1 version in release and 10 in +</I>><i> backports? do the older backported packages have to be securitypatched? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> imho not supported backports means that if backports has an issue, try a +</I>><i> newer backports... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> imho that is a good level, that doesn't require much effort. +</I> +I think we agree, because if we follow the Mandriva way, upload of a new +backport for a given package removes the old one if there is one. So at a +given time, you only have to support the package in release or updates + 0 or +1 backport. + +Samuel +-------------- next part -------------- +An HTML attachment was scrubbed... +URL: </pipermail/mageia-dev/attachments/20110611/cd906686/attachment.html> +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005409.html">[Mageia-dev] Missing packages in Mageia 1. How to backport? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005419.html">[Mageia-dev] Missing packages in Mageia 1. 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