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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010449.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010449.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f0482528f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010449.html @@ -0,0 +1,139 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How broken are RPM dependencies allowed to be? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20broken%20are%20RPM%20dependencies%20allowed%20to%20be%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20111214223737.GA21938%40mars-attacks.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="010430.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="010451.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How broken are RPM dependencies allowed to be?</H1> + <B>nicolas vigier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20broken%20are%20RPM%20dependencies%20allowed%20to%20be%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20111214223737.GA21938%40mars-attacks.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How broken are RPM dependencies allowed to be?">boklm at mars-attacks.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Dec 14 23:37:37 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="010430.html">[Mageia-dev] How broken are RPM dependencies allowed to be? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="010451.html">[Mageia-dev] How broken are RPM dependencies allowed to be? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#10449">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#10449">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#10449">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#10449">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Wed, 14 Dec 2011, Dan Fandrich wrote: + +><i> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:31:36PM +0100, Thierry Vignaud wrote: +</I>><i> > On 14 December 2011 10:14, Dan Fandrich <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">dan at coneharvesters.com</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > > I can understand that my particular case is unsupported, but I described +</I>><i> > > a different, supported, scenario that would also fail due to this problem. +</I>><i> > > To reiterate, a distribution upgrade from 1 to 2 (once it's finalized) +</I>><i> > > could involve urpmi first upgrading the perl-dependent package but avoid +</I>><i> > > installing the new perl itself until the end of the upgrade, which could be +</I>><i> > > hours or (if interrupted) days later. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > This is bullshit. +</I>><i> > urpmi will upgrade perl itself first (with glibc, rpm & perl-URPM). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> What does perl have to do with this? It's a general problem that could +</I>><i> happen with any upgrade where version dependencies aren't listed correctly. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > During the entirety of that time, +</I>><i> > > that package would be unusable. If that package happened to be a key CGI +</I>><i> > > script for a web site, the entire site would be down for that entire time. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > This is totally unrealistic. +</I>><i> > If someone is fool enough to perform a live upgrade on a server +</I>><i> > still serving requests, it deserves being shoot. Twice. +</I>><i> > One usually pulls a server out of trafic, upgrade it, then put it back +</I>><i> > in use. And keeps HA by keeping another old server responding. +</I>><i> > That's not a valid use case. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Once again, you're looking at this specific example and missing the general +</I>><i> case. This problem can happen even when installing a batch of bug fixes within +</I>><i> a single release. The time span would hopefully me more on the order of minutes +</I>><i> than hours, but the problem remains the same. +</I> +We usually avoid pushing new incompatible perl version as update on +stable releases. + +><i> +</I>><i> > This will break on every distro. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Only those with broken dependencies. Plenty of people use Debian unstable, for +</I>><i> example, but in my experience, their dependencies are much more extensively +</I>><i> versioned. Libraries of the same SONAME are generally backwards-compatible, +</I>><i> so there's nothing fundamentally preventing this from working. But, it +</I> +Dependencies based on SONAME are already added, because it can be done +automatically. + +><i> does mean extra effort and I understand if that's why it isn't being +</I>><i> done. But if that's the case, then when are versioned dependencies +</I>><i> ever acceptable? The arguments I've been hearing (i.e. never try to mix +</I>><i> releases & don't bother trying to use your system during any kind of urpmi +</I>><i> update) ultimately mean that they could be entirely removed everywhere. +</I> +Versionned dependencies are added when they are needed to allow correct +updates on stable release or upgrades from one release to an other +(installing all available updates, not only some of them), for example +to require installing some packages in the same transaction. Or when +the dependencies can be detected and added automatically. But I don't +think you should expect to be able to take any package from any release +and install it on an other release with accurate dependencies. + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="010430.html">[Mageia-dev] How broken are RPM dependencies allowed to be? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="010451.html">[Mageia-dev] How broken are RPM dependencies allowed to be? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#10449">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#10449">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#10449">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#10449">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |