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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010328.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010328.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3a4c966fd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-December/010328.html @@ -0,0 +1,218 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] RFC: Opening Backports (once again...) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20RFC%3A%20Opening%20Backports%20%28once%20again...%29&In-Reply-To=%3C4EE38434.7040606%40mageia.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="010314.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="010350.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] RFC: Opening Backports (once again...)</H1> + <B>Thomas Backlund</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20RFC%3A%20Opening%20Backports%20%28once%20again...%29&In-Reply-To=%3C4EE38434.7040606%40mageia.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] RFC: Opening Backports (once again...)">tmb at mageia.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 10 17:09:24 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="010314.html">[Mageia-dev] RFC: Opening Backports (once again...) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="010350.html">[Mageia-dev] RFC: Opening Backports (once again...) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#10328">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#10328">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#10328">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#10328">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Michael Scherer skrev 10.12.2011 13:32: +><i> Le mardi 06 décembre 2011 à 00:56 +0200, Thomas Backlund a écrit : +</I>>><i> Now, +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> here comes the question about backports once again. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> We are now 6+ months into Mageia 1, and we are nowhere closer to opening +</I>>><i> backports that we were at Mageia 1 release time. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Because of that there are 3rdparty repos popping up everywhere..., +</I>>><i> something we hoped to avoid atleast partly when starting this project. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, the backport issue ( ie : +</I>><i> - no garantee of keep the distribution upgradable +</I> + +Policy is to always keep Cauldron with atleast higher release, +so next release will be ok. + +I guess when we have 2 releases we must extend the policy to +state that if you backport to Mageia 1 you also must backport +to Mageia 2 in order to keep upgrading fully possible. + + +><i> - no security ) +</I> + +Well, that's the same as with current stable relase, +maintainer/backporter submits security fixes to backports_testing + +QA validates, update gets pushed. + +><i> +</I>><i> have also not been fixed, so that's rather unfair to +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> And at current rate we will probably release Mageia "infinity" +</I>>><i> before backports is opened. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> It has been delayed because of needed infrastructure changes, +</I>>><i> something no-one have had time to do so far... +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I know there is "only some coding missing" and "someone should +</I>>><i> do it", buth truthfully there are only a few that knows the +</I>>><i> code used in the buildsystem enough to actually make it happend, +</I>>><i> and they are already othervise busy or overloaded... +</I>>><i> (this is no rant against them, as all here are using their +</I>>><i> personal free time to help out) +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> And to be honest I dont see that changing anytime soon... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then we have a bigger problem to solve. +</I>><i> +</I> +Yep, no argument here.... + + +>><i> So here is a suggestion to get some value to our endusers: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> we add a backports branch on svn +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> So packages for backports would use: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> svn.mageia.org/packages/backports/1/<package>/{current,pristine,releases} +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> and allow that to be used for backports. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Using a separate branch is also a cleaner way of providing +</I>>><i> backports, and makes it easy to separate changes needed only +</I>>><i> for Cauldron (or backports). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then in practice, that mean having a 2nd/3rd distribution ( because +</I>><i> there is a separate 2nd svn branch, and a 3rd one for later ) and so +</I>><i> that's a big no for me. Having 2+ branchs is just asking for trouble +</I>><i> when they are not in sync ( and since keeping everything in sync +</I>><i> properly with svn is a pain if there is a divergence, this will not be +</I>><i> done ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Worst, if we do like in mdv and propose 2 way of backporting ( submit +</I>><i> from cauldron, submit from a branch ), this will create a mess of having +</I>><i> some packages from cauldron, some from the branch, and people having no +</I>><i> way from knowing where does a package come from. This also make the +</I>><i> system harder to maintain and to follow, and rather impossible to script +</I>><i> properly. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So that's also to be avoided. +</I>><i> +</I> +Well, branching is needed, regardless if it's done in a whole separate +branch as I suggested, or in a branch per package when needed. + +><i> Having a separate branch where people can write also remove the only +</I>><i> incentive I have seen for backports, ie, wider testing of our packages, +</I>><i> because they may not really the same as in cauldron. +</I>><i> +</I> +It cant always be the same in cauldron and backports. + +><i> +</I>><i> So here is what I propose : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - have X branchs, but do not let anyone commit on it, besides a system +</I>><i> user. When a package is submitted to cauldron, it is also copied to this +</I>><i> branch, ie, we make sure current is in sync. The same goes for version +</I>><i> N-1 being copied from N once a backported rpm have been submitted to be +</I>><i> used by people. Once a distribution is no longer supported, we close the +</I>><i> branch, and disable the sync. +</I>><i> +</I> +If you cant commit to the branch, it's useless. + +><i> - backports are only submitted from the branch, with separate +</I>><i> markrelease, tags, whatever. This let us have proper audit of backports, +</I>><i> and who did what. +</I>><i> +</I> +the same auditing is available in any branch or cauldron. + +><i> - packagers still need to commit and submit on cauldron before any +</I>><i> backports. So we miss no fixes or anything by mistake. We also make sure +</I>><i> that cauldron is always the highest version possible, thus permitting at +</I>><i> least some form of upgrade. ( either stable to stable, provided +</I>><i> backports are used, or stable to cauldron ). And we also ensure that +</I>><i> backports are done first on the most recent stable version, for the same +</I>><i> reason ( ensure some form of upgrade path, as asked several time by +</I>><i> users ). +</I>><i> +</I> +Sorry, buth this wont work in reality... + +Consider this: + +version X in Mageia 1 +version X+1 in Cauldron + +version X+1 gets backported. + +version X+2 uploaded in Cauldron +version X+2 cant be backported (depends on updated libs/packages in +Cauldron, and we dont backport libs that can break working setups) + +version X+1 in backports need to be fixed (security/maintenance fix) +(here your logic breaks down, there is no place to fix it) + + +And since we aim for quality backports, the maintainer may want to +stay with version X+1 in backports even if X+2 could be backported +if maintainer think X+2 isn't a good candidate for some reason. + +-- +Thomas +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="010314.html">[Mageia-dev] RFC: Opening Backports (once again...) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="010350.html">[Mageia-dev] RFC: Opening Backports (once again...) +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#10328">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#10328">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#10328">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#10328">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |