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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007453.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007453.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..72c515c2e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007453.html @@ -0,0 +1,163 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%3A%20Deprecate%20draknetcenter%2Bnetwork%20init%0A%20scripts%20after%20systemd%20becomes%20default.&In-Reply-To=%3C4E53AB85.4050905%40colin.guthr.ie%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="007483.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="007481.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default.</H1> + <B>Colin Guthrie</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%3A%20Deprecate%20draknetcenter%2Bnetwork%20init%0A%20scripts%20after%20systemd%20becomes%20default.&In-Reply-To=%3C4E53AB85.4050905%40colin.guthr.ie%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default.">mageia at colin.guthr.ie + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Aug 23 15:30:45 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="007483.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="007481.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#7453">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#7453">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#7453">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#7453">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>'Twas brillig, and Guillaume Rousse at 23/08/11 12:16 did gyre and gimble: +><i> On 23/08/2011 12:26, Colin Guthrie wrote: +</I>>>><i> How would removing initscripts support helps enhancing networkmanager +</I>>>><i> integration ? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Because the current philosophy of the Unix legacy is lots of individual +</I>>><i> utils from various packages cobbled together with some glue shell +</I>>><i> scripting code... and it's dying. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> The things that these individual tools implement are a few relatively +</I>>><i> simply commands to the kernel and it doesn't make sense to do all this +</I>>><i> in shell. It makes much more sense to do all these jobs in efficient +</I>>><i> code that runs *quickly* without forking hundreds of times. The code is +</I>>><i> still perfectly visible and easily hackable, but now things are much +</I>>><i> more robust and efficient. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Booting faster makes sense on desktops, not on servers. +</I> +Agreed, but on servers additional capabilities are added that I very +much care about (much more than I care about boot speed on my laptop if +I'm honest - with my SSD I'm looking at a 1 or 2 second boots - who +cares about that!). I'm actually much more excited about systemd on the +server than I am on a desktop. + +The cgroup management and the ability to restart network services +without losing a single connection is a revelation for me. I will no +longer worry about restarting apache because it might mess up a +webservice request or similar. And if I get rooted and find rogue +processes running, I'll be able to know exactly what service actually +started that process which is incredibly useful when dealing with the +mess left by intrusions. + +><i> My general +</I>><i> impression in this new trend (systemd, networkmanager, etc...) is the +</I>><i> need to compete with proprietary system (macos, windows) on end-user +</I>><i> segment, at the cost of genericity and simplicity. +</I> +I think the simplicity argument is bogus. You are (IMO) confusing +simplicity with ease of readability. Sure you can read through a script, +but the process of starting and maintaining services now becomes +*standard*. I don't have to read scripts for every single one of the +1000s of init'ed services, I just need to understand the process of +services management in general and I can pretty much work with +everything. When you appreciate that, you'll see that systemd makes +things much simpler overall. Sure you can't read a script, but that, in +itself, has nothing to do with simplicity. Individual scripts tweaking +certain things and adding secret arguments and such like is far, far +more complex than a unified and defined way of working. + +And yes, if we're honest, MacOS has a far superior boot system in +launchd and the networking support is also better with it's fast-start +DHCP and other such nice things. + +I'm not suggesting network manager on servers here FWIW, but I think +your reluctance to change should be massively outweighed by the benefits +these changes bring, both to the server platform and to desktop systems. + +Col + + +-- + +Colin Guthrie +mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie +<A HREF="http://colin.guthr.ie/">http://colin.guthr.ie/</A> + +Day Job: + Tribalogic Limited [<A HREF="http://www.tribalogic.net/">http://www.tribalogic.net/</A>] +Open Source: + Mageia Contributor [<A HREF="http://www.mageia.org/">http://www.mageia.org/</A>] + PulseAudio Hacker [<A HREF="http://www.pulseaudio.org/">http://www.pulseaudio.org/</A>] + Trac Hacker [<A HREF="http://trac.edgewall.org/">http://trac.edgewall.org/</A>] +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="007483.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="007481.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#7453">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#7453">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#7453">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#7453">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |