diff options
Diffstat (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007449.html')
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007449.html | 178 |
1 files changed, 178 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007449.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007449.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..71d975695 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007449.html @@ -0,0 +1,178 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%3A%20Deprecate%20draknetcenter%2Bnetwork%20init%0A%20scripts%20after%20systemd%20becomes%20default.&In-Reply-To=%3C4E538051.4040501%40colin.guthr.ie%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="007445.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="007451.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default.</H1> + <B>Colin Guthrie</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Proposal%3A%20Deprecate%20draknetcenter%2Bnetwork%20init%0A%20scripts%20after%20systemd%20becomes%20default.&In-Reply-To=%3C4E538051.4040501%40colin.guthr.ie%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default.">mageia at colin.guthr.ie + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Aug 23 12:26:25 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="007445.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="007451.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#7449">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#7449">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#7449">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#7449">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>'Twas brillig, and Guillaume Rousse at 23/08/11 10:33 did gyre and gimble: +><i> On 23/08/2011 10:30, Colin Guthrie wrote: +</I>>><i> 'Twas brillig, and Michael scherer at 22/08/11 13:14 did gyre and gimble: +</I>>>><i> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 08:44:01AM -0300, Balcaen John wrote: +</I>>>>><i> Le Monday 22 August 2011 12:57:23 Guillaume Rousse a écrit : +</I>>>>>><i> On 22/08/2011 11:57, Colin Guthrie wrote: +</I>>>>>>><i> I also have it on good authority that many of the features lacking +</I>>>>>>><i> in NetworkManager (such as bridging configuration) will be +</I>>>>>>><i> available in the not too distant future and many other more +</I>>>>>>><i> advanced networking features such as fast-start DHCP, +</I>>>>>>><i> per-interface DNS, 4-8's DNS fallback and several other nice +</I>>>>>>><i> features will ultimately be possible too. +</I>>>>>><i> While I don't care about configuration wizards, I do about +</I>>>>>><i> initscripts. How are you supposed to configure a server in some +</I>>>>>><i> automated manner without plain-old configuration files ? +</I>>>>><i> If i'm not wrong you can still drop plain text files in +</I>>>>><i> /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/ +</I>>>><i> +</I>>>><i> Provided you want to do nothing fancy like bridge, vlan and +</I>>>><i> others stuff that are used by sysadmins. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> As I said in my initial email, but was not clear. All of these things +</I>>><i> will be supported in a much nicer way in the near future. +</I> + +><i> Well, even if supported, I do feel much more confident in shell scripts +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I can read, understand and easily fix if needed to fit my own needs, +</I>><i> than in a native binary. +</I> +This is a endless argument but one which will ultimately not be +sustainable I fear. I do sympathise, but by the same token, I also want +a modern, fast and efficient system too, so I'm kinda torn. I understand +C code pretty well generally and while I can't just "less" the program +on my machine it's not too hard to get the source code and pick through +it when I need to (which is very rarely in reality) so I think both my +need for curiosity is satisfied and while I accept the "on-site +hackability" does get negatively impacted, the larger number of users +using a standard system should result in less problems overall and thus +less need to hack in the first place... this won't always be true, but +I'm happy with that trade off. + +><i> How would removing initscripts support helps enhancing networkmanager +</I>><i> integration ? +</I> +Because the current philosophy of the Unix legacy is lots of individual +utils from various packages cobbled together with some glue shell +scripting code... and it's dying. + +The things that these individual tools implement are a few relatively +simply commands to the kernel and it doesn't make sense to do all this +in shell. It makes much more sense to do all these jobs in efficient +code that runs *quickly* without forking hundreds of times. The code is +still perfectly visible and easily hackable, but now things are much +more robust and efficient. + +It's also the case that people *talk* about doing stuff lots, but very +rarely actually *do* it. People have talked about tidying up the init +system for years, and they've talked about improving the networking +support for years but these just go in circles and never really result +in real progress. For the first time in a long time, things are actually +being *done* about this and in doing so we can take advantage of a lot +of the modern features of Linux. It's exciting and it means that the +support in the GUI frontends for network management become much more +standardised and less varying over different distros. The fact that +distros all tweak things and do "homebrew" for network management means +that for tools like network manager to support all distros they have to +do a whole bunch of weird shit to work on RH vs Mandrvia. vs Suse, vs +Ubuntu etc. etc. By ripping out the cruft and replacing it with standard +binaries, you get consistency at the expense of the all the variations +but IMO this is a good thing - everyone benefits from a larger community +working on the same thing - more eyes, less bugs, more features. + +So, removing the variations in different distros init methods and +network management tools, is very clearly enabling better network +manager integration. + +Hope that explains it a bit (tho' I'm typing quickly because I'm "at +work", so sorry if it doesn't read super clearly!) + +Col + +-- + +Colin Guthrie +mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie +<A HREF="http://colin.guthr.ie/">http://colin.guthr.ie/</A> + +Day Job: + Tribalogic Limited [<A HREF="http://www.tribalogic.net/">http://www.tribalogic.net/</A>] +Open Source: + Mageia Contributor [<A HREF="http://www.mageia.org/">http://www.mageia.org/</A>] + PulseAudio Hacker [<A HREF="http://www.pulseaudio.org/">http://www.pulseaudio.org/</A>] + Trac Hacker [<A HREF="http://trac.edgewall.org/">http://trac.edgewall.org/</A>] +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="007445.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="007451.html">[Mageia-dev] Proposal: Deprecate draknetcenter+network init scripts after systemd becomes default. +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#7449">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#7449">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#7449">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#7449">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |