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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007191.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007191.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..30dd6b2c9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-August/007191.html @@ -0,0 +1,253 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Drakxnet, drakroam and Draknetcenter : let's fix it or throw it. + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Drakxnet%2C%0A%09drakroam%20and%20Draknetcenter%20%3A%20let%27s%20fix%20it%20or%20throw%20it.&In-Reply-To=%3C201108022220.49601.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="007189.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="007146.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Drakxnet, drakroam and Draknetcenter : let's fix it or throw it.</H1> + <B>Maarten Vanraes</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Drakxnet%2C%0A%09drakroam%20and%20Draknetcenter%20%3A%20let%27s%20fix%20it%20or%20throw%20it.&In-Reply-To=%3C201108022220.49601.maarten.vanraes%40gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Drakxnet, drakroam and Draknetcenter : let's fix it or throw it.">maarten.vanraes at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Aug 2 22:20:49 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="007189.html">[Mageia-dev] Drakxnet, drakroam and Draknetcenter : let's fix it or throw it. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="007146.html">[Mageia-dev] new samba-squid subpackage proporsal +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#7191">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#7191">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#7191">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#7191">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Op dinsdag 02 augustus 2011 17:29:35 schreef Buchan Milne: +><i> On Monday, 1 August 2011 20:21:21 Maarten Vanraes wrote: +</I>><i> > Op maandag 01 augustus 2011 11:42:26 schreef Thomas Lottmann: +</I>><i> > > Hello, +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > I should have written this mail much sooner, but finally, I am totally, +</I>><i> > > completely and starting to be hatefully fed up of these tools. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > The Mandriva/Mageia tools that manage the network on computers, +</I>><i> > > especially the wireless networks are completely dysfunctional. While +</I>><i> > > the Network Center does not seem to even communicate with the system +</I>><i> > > tools to know what is happening during the link setup, it does not +</I>><i> > > auto-refresh network lists properly. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Since 2010.1 now even mixes up itself in it's own network scripts (the +</I>><i> > > ones stored in wireless.d). This maxes it wrongly detect numerous +</I>><i> > > wireless points (he seen WPA2 Enterperise hotspots as opened or WEP, or +</I>><i> > > more nerving, becomes incapable or storing the right authentication +</I>><i> > > information). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> My "production" laptop is still currently running Mandriva 2010.x, and I +</I>><i> don't have problems like this. Work networks run WPA2-Enterprise with +</I>><i> EAP-PEAP- MSCHAPv2, home runs WPA2-Personal. In the cases I have seen +</I>><i> this, it is typically a buggy AP (and in some cases, other platforms have +</I>><i> also mis- detected the network details). In some cases, upgrading the AP +</I>><i> firmware has resolved the problem. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But, these are *specific* issues, and need bug reports with detailed +</I>><i> information. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > A tool that breaks itself is a complete shame! +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > The GUI is also appalling. Despite it's numerous possibilities, it is a +</I>><i> > > mess and 60% of it cannot be used by something else than the system or +</I>><i> > > a network expert. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There are some deficiencies, but in many cases it does at least work. And +</I>><i> at least my network comes up regardless of how I boot, where I booted to, +</I>><i> whether a user is logged in to a desktop or not (which is not the case on +</I>><i> e.g. Fedora). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > The code itself is undocumented and it extremely difficult to read. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The few times I looked at the code, it was quite readable. Unfortunately, +</I>><i> the pieces I wanted to do something about ended up requiring changes in +</I>><i> non-perl parts. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > These tools are getting really bad and not working properly anyway +</I>><i> > > since a long time now. So either we fix it and improve it (recoding?), +</I>><i> > > either we definitely switch to Network Manager. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Please no. The biggest frustrations I personally have have nothing to do +</I>><i> with net_applet vs NM. My current biggest frustrations are: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1)That wpa_supplicant doesn't return different results on incorrect (WPA2- +</I>><i> Enterprise EAP-PEAP) passwords: +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://hostap.epitest.fi/bugz/show_bug.cgi?id=399">http://hostap.epitest.fi/bugz/show_bug.cgi?id=399</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 2)That net_applet doesn't prompt for passwords if wpa_supplicant says it +</I>><i> needs a password. I filed a bug for this against Mandriva: +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=51705">https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=51705</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Implementing the required dbus communication would allow a number of other +</I>><i> improvements (e.g. not having to restart wpa_supplicant for configuration +</I>><i> changes, possibly avoid manual parsing/writing of the configuration etc.). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > I am ready to participate if +</I>><i> > > necessary (despite my lack of competence), but I do not want to see +</I>><i> > > these tools 'as is' on my computer anymore, and no longer want to see +</I>><i> > > these issues that down Mageia's reputation in comparison to other +</I>><i> > > popular projects here such as Arch, Fedora or Ubuntu, who do have +</I>><i> > > proper tools delivered by default. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I disagree with your statement. For example, while Fedora may seem to have +</I>><i> "proper tools", there are many use cases that aren't considered, and a +</I>><i> number of issues are still experienced (at least according to my +</I>><i> colleagues reports). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Allowing NM or non-NM, and having both improved would be win-win. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > > This is not the first time I complain about this tool. We should not +</I>><i> > > leave this unchanged. It is far too annoying and pushing to so much +</I>><i> > > loss of time. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Yours sincerely,. +</I>><i> > > +</I>><i> > > Thomas. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > personally, alot of problems could likely be attributed to using all +</I>><i> > those several of those apps together. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > imho, the network tools should be redesigned a bit, according to good +</I>><i> > usability, but mostly, either they should all be nicely integrated which +</I>><i> > each other, or we should just have one that does all nicely. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > personally, i find the netapplet the best working and use that +</I>><i> > exclusively to avoid issues. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > but sadly, even netapplet is far from complete. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > as some kind of start, we should have an app that exists in drakconf, but +</I>><i> > also accessible via an applet, but again, perhaps we should have multiple +</I>><i> > applets, with one for each connection. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I don't think this is necessary, the 'Network Center' does an adequate job +</I>><i> (taking into account some limitations in the network scripts). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > eg: a wifi access link, 2 network connections (one of which goes to +</I>><i> > internet), and 3 openvpn tunnels (as an example) it would even be better, +</I>><i> > if bluetooth networking could also be included. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Bluetooth networking *can* be included, but there is an artificial +</I>><i> limitation on only one ppp connection, so you wouldn't be able to have a +</I>><i> Bluetooth SPP- based ppp connection as well as a +</I>><i> mobile-broadband-dongle-based connection (or ADSL). +</I> +why would there be only 1 possible ppp connection? that sounds odd. + +><i> For bluetooth ppp over SPP, the bluetooth configuration only needs to be +</I>><i> done once ever (if done correctly), the rfcomm connections will be +</I>><i> established when necessary. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> (Or, are you referring to PAN?). +</I> +i think i was, yes, but i'm not too clear on how this sort of thing works + +><i> > (this would also allow for +</I>><i> > multiple internet connections at a later time with some advanced routing) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > at the same time, people could tell at a glance if they accidentally use +</I>><i> > more than one internet access method. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> You can see this in Network Center. +</I> +yes, but i'm not really a fan of network center, and the whole point of the +net_applet is that you can always see it, in your systray area. which is where +i'd like to have all current networking connections separately, so you can +have 3 openvpn connection and 3 icons, it can more easily show you which are +working and which aren't. + +each of those icons should be 4 state, off-state (but present), on-state, fail- +state and gateway-state (this connection is use as one of the default routes.) + +(incidentally, i'd also like for most connections to set up default route and +having some small advanced routing that would at least enforce symmetrical +routing. + +eg: each such icon could have as right click menu: + - enable/disable + - reconnect (?) + - use for internet (default route) + - delete +------------------- + - add new connection (wizard with several types: vpn, virtual interfaces, +bonds, bridges, etc... ) + - firewall ----> (firewall options) +--------------- + - network center + - help + - exit + +ie: no more "followed interface, and the like options, because they only +confuse people. + +in drakconf there should then be a network center which is the same thing if +you click on the net_applet on network center. + +the network center should also be an extension of net_applet, the same icons +should be shown, but bigger with the same states and same right click menu,. + + +iow: i would like them all to be nicely integrated with eachother. + + +><i> > about openvpn, some of those are user-related (even though they have +</I>><i> > effects on global routing), especially password related things, +</I>><i> > personally, i think it'd be better if these can only be controlled +</I>><i> > through the applet by the user it's from (with perhaps an option to +</I>><i> > allow any user to control this too) +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > again with openvpn, it would be usefull if there was some kind of way to +</I>><i> > know it's not only running, but also if it's essentially active or not, +</I>><i> > and if it's used as a internet gateway. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, the general feedback provided to users (also with e.g. ppp +</I>><i> connections) could be improved. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> > These are some things which i have noticed over the years of using it and +</I>><i> > listening to end-user problems. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > perhaps the above can be used as a starting point for a usability scheme. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Thomas, since you feel this strongly, are you willing to spend some time +</I>><i> > on this? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Regards, +</I>><i> Buchan +</I></PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="007189.html">[Mageia-dev] Drakxnet, drakroam and Draknetcenter : let's fix it or throw it. +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="007146.html">[Mageia-dev] new samba-squid subpackage proporsal +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#7191">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#7191">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#7191">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#7191">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |