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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101212/001715.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101212/001715.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0b05fde5b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101212/001715.html @@ -0,0 +1,199 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101212175752.GB21415%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001714.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>Michael scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C20101212175752.GB21415%40sisay.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Dec 12 18:57:52 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001714.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1715">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1715">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1715">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1715">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 12:36:05AM -0500, andre999 wrote: +><i> Michael scherer a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 08:16:33AM -0500, andre999 wrote: +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >>>Not to mention that a ratio of 2 mirrors in the USA out of a total +</I>><i> >>>of 25 seems rather odd, for something that admins do not care. +</I>><i> >> +</I>><i> >>2 of 25 PLF mirrors in the U.S. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >Technically, 1, since the other is down ( and should be removed from +</I>><i> >the list ). +</I>><i> >So a ratio of 4%. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Unless you are going to analyse what is down for the other distros, +</I>><i> you should say 2 ± 1, that is 4 to 12% +</I> +Ok, when I say down, I should say "the domain no longer exist". It is just +not registered. Not "down and it will be up" later, but "down someone didn't +bother to pay the domain". Obviously, I should not assume that people +check facts before telling me my numbers are wrong. + +And since other distributions have various systems to detect this ( mandriva have one, +fedora have one, opensuse too ), there is no need to touch to the number. +PLF do not have any checking tasks, so the mirror was not seen as wrong. + +There is 1 working mirror and the svn changelog show that this number is quite +stable enough. + +And I would have removed the incorrect one, if I didn't consider this as +a abuse of my root privilege on zarb.org. + +><i> Or 9%. Depending on how you want to fudge the figures. +</I> +There is no estimate or fudging involved, we have exact number +of mirrors, I gave the url for each distributions. + + +><i> But maybe it is because they (in policy at least) exclude non-free +</I>><i> software ? +</I> +So does debian. + +><i> And just how rigorously do they apply a no patent-constrained +</I>><i> software policy ? +</I> +A quick research could have answered to this question : +<A HREF="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Software_Patents">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Software_Patents</A> + +They used to remove mp3 support from source code : +<A HREF="http://www.csparks.com/redhatUnhoarked/index.xhtml">http://www.csparks.com/redhatUnhoarked/index.xhtml</A> + +But that was 5 years ago. Nowadays, I do not think they still do it +as icecast for example is not modified ( despites supporting mp3 format +but maybe because there is no trace of codecs, it is ok ). + +><i> Haven't I heard somewhere that Fedora (and RedHat) are based in the +</I>><i> U.S. ? So wouldn't it be natural to expect that it would have a +</I>><i> higher proportion of sites there ? +</I> +Debian too is based in the US ( managed since 1996 by SPI, based in NYC ). +So does Novell ( created in Utah, headquarters in Massachusetts ). + +><i> >And I didn't count other country such as Japan, where patents on software +</I>><i> >are permitted ( <A HREF="http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Japan">http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Japan</A> ), and where the count of PLF +</I>><i> >mirrors vs Fedora mirrors is 0 to 8. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 0 ± 1 gives 0 to 12%. Same ballpark. +</I>><i> Also, recruiting Fedora mirrors could be driven by the commercial +</I>><i> interests of RedHat. +</I> +"could" is a supposition, and I think you should give facts, not suppositions. + +For the mirror, there is 2 private R&D labs ( KDDI, RIKEN ), 2 university +( Yamagata, JAIST ), and the rest are network related ( iij.ad.jp, wide.ad.jp, +dti.ad.jp, ftp.ne.jp see <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.jp">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.jp</A> for the meaning of +the various second level domain ). + +So I doubt that commercial interest of the main sponsor have something to do, +since the profile is quite similar to the usual one of most mirrors ( ie, +people with lots of bandwidth, servers, and interest into helping free software ). + + +><i> >More ever, the fact that this is hosted by some private and rather anonymous +</I>><i> >company is also a important point. Ie, no .edu or big telco ever contacted +</I>><i> >PLF to host a mirror, while in France and another country, PLF have both. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Considering that PLF is based on Mandriva, and Mandriva is based in +</I>><i> France, wouldn't it be natural to expect PLF to be better +</I>><i> represented there ? +</I> +I think you missed the point. Let me explain : + +There is no USA university, nor USA telecom company that contacted PLF. + +On the other hand, in other part of the world, PLF is mainly hosted by telecom +company ( like Zoomnet and Bentel, for example ) and by universities ( Porto, Taiwan, +Bahcesehir among others ). + +><i> >>Also, there are only about 400 packages for i586 in PLF mirrors. +</I>><i> >>Since most are duplicated, I wonder how many distinct packages there are ? +</I>><i> >>Somehow doubt that an unlicenced copy of quotes from the Simpsons +</I>><i> >>(one of the 2 plf packages that I didn't find also in Mandriva main) +</I>><i> >>is going to be a big attraction. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >You should look a little bit more closely. For example, libdvdcss2 is plf only. +</I>><i> >So does various emulator, lame ( and related like darkice ), gstreamer-bad, +</I>><i> >etc. There is amule, and similar software. More than 2. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Of the twenty or so PLF packages that I found looking through +</I>><i> available packages with Mandriva and PLF repositories enabled, only +</I>><i> 2 did not also have the same version in Mandriva. (All Mandriva +</I>><i> main, in this sample.) That is about 10% not in Mandriva. +</I>><i> So for arguments sake let's say 20% are not in Mandriva. That makes +</I>><i> only about 80 packages only in PLF. +</I>><i> Impressive, isn't it ? +</I> +You said on <A HREF="https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20101201/001576.html">https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20101201/001576.html</A> +that you have decades of programming experience. So I assume that writing +a script to get more precise numbers would not be too hard instead of +saying "I counted somewhere 20 packages in a limited part of the +distribution" :/ + +><i> BTW, gstreamer*plugins-bad is in Mandriva contrib. +</I> +But not all subpackages. Take a look at the spec file ( using +mdvsys should ease the work ) and see that 5 subpackages +are conditionnaly built. + +I think you may have missed the point about PLF rpms being at Mandriva. +( or the contrary, depend on how you look ). + +They share the same source code, but they do not link to the same +software, or use the same configure options. + +So Mandriva considered that distributing mplayer without enabling mp3 +write support ( with lame ) was safe enough. PLF do the distribution +of lame, and rebuild mplayer with it ( so mencoder can write mp3 ). +Fedora do not distribute mplayer at all. + +And that's basically the same scheme for various dual life packages +( with variations about the feature that is enabled, there used to be a issue +on font hinting, for freetype and bytecode interpreter ) + +-- +Michael Scherer +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001714.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1715">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1715">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1715">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1715">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |