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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001697.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001697.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9e2ef755b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101211/001697.html @@ -0,0 +1,175 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Mirror layout + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D03071D.90806%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001696.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001698.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Mirror%20layout&In-Reply-To=%3C4D03071D.90806%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Dec 11 06:07:41 CET 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001696.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1697">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1697">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1697">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1697">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Wolfgang Bornath a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> 2010/12/10 andre999<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">andr55 at laposte.net</A>>: +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> We should remember that patents are a civil right accorded by rules +</I>>><i> differing from country to country. Many countries don't offer patents on +</I>>><i> software. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But some do and here we are talking about those that do. +</I> +OK ... + +>><i> Patent holders have to use the courts to enforce these rights, who often +</I>>><i> deny or limit patent holder's claims. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It is not about enforcing patent rights, it is about distributing +</I>><i> software which is infringing existing patent rights in said countries. +</I> +Software (or anything else) only infringes on a patent if a court says +so. If the court hasn't pronounced, there is no infringement. +All a patent offers is the right to make a claim of infringement. +If it is not enforced over a long period of time, courts often decide +that it is no longer enforceable. (One sees that in many U.S. court +decisions.) + +>><i> So in addition to any theoretical rights of software patent holders, there +</I>>><i> is the consideration "is it worth the money and effort for the potential +</I>>><i> gain in royalties" ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This is not the question because we are not talking about costly court trials. +</I> +The damages claimable are in proportion to the loss the claimant can +demonstrate. So even if they win (at least partially), will it be worth +the effort ? + +>><i> "cease and desist" letters are just warnings. Any attached "bill" would +</I>>><i> only have effect if validatated by a court. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, I can refuse to pay, then it goes to court. And with an existing +</I>><i> law which protects patented software, who do you think will win? +</I> +Again, until it decided by a court, it is only an unvalidated claim. +In the U.S., rarely does a patent holder win enough to justify their +legal costs. If they win. A lot of the costs are pretrial preparation, +to develop a case. + +>><i> And how does that translate for free software ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It has nothing to do which subject it is. Such warnings are sent out +</I>><i> to the hundreds about all kinds of things like missing or incorrect +</I>><i> imprints on websites or whatever. There are whole lawyer's companies +</I>><i> specialized on that. Remember, we are not talking about Mageia and/or +</I>><i> large companies or organisations as I already wrote, we are talking +</I>><i> about the private mirror maintainer who has no backup. +</I> +These warnings are a tactic to scare the naive, to a large degree. +Lawyers and others do it everywhere. Did you realise that these +warnings generally contain a statement to ensure that they can't be used +in court against the author ? Because the usually excessive demands +will work against them in court ? + +><i> Well, maybe I can not make myself understood sufficiently. All I can +</I>><i> say, it has nothing to do with paranoia, it is reality. We +</I>><i> (mandrivauser.de) decided unanomously not to mirror PLF because of +</I>><i> such reasons because there are possibilities of such liabilities even +</I>><i> in Germany. +</I> +I would suggest that you would have more risk each time you cross the +street, than your site to be pursued for carrying packages which might +be subject to patents. But that is for you to decide. + +The PLF has several sites in the U.S., who remain unthreatened despite +the fact that they distribute software using patented mpeg technology. +And the patent holders are pursuing others in the U.S. The difference +being that the others are making a profit with the mpeg technology. +That is an important part of the potential to win enough in court to +make it worth the cost. It is particularly important in the U.S. +courts, according to the various information I encounter. + +><i> So, all in all my point is: +</I>><i> separating such software from the rest makes it possible for mirror +</I>><i> maintainers in such difficult areas to decide. Mixing such software +</I>><i> with all other software makes it almost impossible for same small +</I>><i> mirrors to mirror Mageia at all. +</I> +I do see your point. I just think that you are greatly overestimating +the risk. + +Don't forget, virtually all software, in some respect, can be considered +subject to patent claims. +Microsoft has a patent on some charactistic necessarily used by all +spreadsheets. Including Visicalc, which predates anything Microsoft +produced. +(I forget the details, something ridiculously simple.) +It is obviously unenforceable; no court would endorse it. + +The Linux kernel is supposedly subject to many patents. +So if you want to avoid all potential software patent claims, you should +probably avoid Linux. + +Don't forget, as Romain said, if a particular software becomes targeted +or a patent claim becomes problematic, we can deal with it when the +problem arises. + +Another point is that until we would be notified about such a patent +claim against us, it is highly unlikely that any court would award any +damages or compensation. Patent holders have the right to not request +royalties, selectively or otherwise. +Our position creating or distributing free software would create the +likely presumption that the patent holder chose not to pursue royalties +from us. (At least it works like that in the U.S.) + +Seriously, I don't think that any Mageia mirror is at risk - at least +not before being directly notified of a specific claim - and being given +the opportunity to withdraw the offending package(s). + +another 2 cents :) + +André +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001696.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001698.html">[Mageia-dev] Mirror layout +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1697">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1697">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1697">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1697">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |