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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101007/000969.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101007/000969.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7d1fe12c3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20101007/000969.html @@ -0,0 +1,253 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201010071020.04290.bgmilne%40multilinks.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000952.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000971.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?</H1> + <B>Buchan Milne</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20How%20will%20be%20the%20realese%20cycle%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C201010071020.04290.bgmilne%40multilinks.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle?">bgmilne at multilinks.com + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 7 11:20:04 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000952.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000971.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#969">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#969">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#969">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#969">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Thursday, 7 October 2010 05:21:37 Fernando Parra wrote: +><i> On Wed, 6 Oct 2010 15:25:13 +0100 +</I> +><i> Must first be clear that Mageia is in fact a process of re - engineering +</I>><i> Mandriva. All of us here have perfectly clear that things are not working +</I>><i> as they should in Mandriva, and if we are consistent we should be clear +</I>><i> that there is not only a matter of management. +</I> +Fine, but we still need to identify the real problems, and potential +solutions. I don't believe a problem has been identified for which the only +solution is a rolling release (of any kind). + +The fact that almost no-one on this list seems to have known about backports +at all doesn't mean that the backports feature is not useful, it may be that +it wasn't accessible enough to end users. + +><i> Moreover, if we stick to the numbers, something is not working at all well +</I>><i> with all Linux distributions, while despite all the virtues and benefits +</I>><i> of free software, the number of users is still very small . For example: +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.dudalibre.com/gnulinuxcounter">http://www.dudalibre.com/gnulinuxcounter</A> +</I> +[...] + +><i> Actually my list almost does not matter, in fact it does not matter at all, +</I>><i> because I understand myself as an atypical user. Although I am a teacher, +</I>><i> I have a degree in electronics engineering and other in engineering +</I>><i> software. And while my particular list does not matter, my experience +</I>><i> allows me to see quite clearly both sides of the coin (the end user and +</I>><i> developer). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> With the clear intention of showing the point of view of end users, the +</I>><i> inexperienced, was how I expressed myself here. As developers continually +</I>><i> forget that is what the user wants and focus on what we need. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I find it obvious that the purpose of a distribution is not to develop +</I>><i> everyday applications, however its purpose is to provide the framework on +</I>><i> which you can run the latter. +</I> +[...] + +><i> What I do not like Mandriva model (and indeed of any distribution) is that +</I>><i> although free software is developed very quickly, once you have installed +</I>><i> a distribution, you must wait a cycle to gain access to new versions (not +</I>><i> just security patches) and also must pass through the traumatic transition +</I>><i> from installing any operating system. +</I> +We have already shown that this is patently not the case. The only problems +with the current Mandriva setup are: +-Identifying which packages should be backported +-Making it easier for users to get backports + +><i> Beware! Not for me, and certainly +</I>><i> not for you, my only problem with that is time. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Let me explain with a practical example. A user needs with urgency (without +</I>><i> judging their motives) the new version of aMSN to use his video camera, +</I>><i> with the current model need to wait for the new operating system version +</I>><i> and then install it completely. And to make matters worse this will only +</I>><i> work until MS decides to change the protocol again (as I read he has done +</I>><i> countless times). +</I> +amsn is regularly backported or sent to updates for MS protocol changes. + +><i> Assume that a user, who never pass from being a mere user of basic services +</I>><i> will even try to understand that is the backports repository or cocker or +</I>><i> anything similar, is at best naive. +</I> +So, how would they get updated software on a different platform? + +><i> I do work continuously with such people, and I have made clear they want +</I>><i> solutions as simple as giving a couple of clicks to solve this type of +</I>><i> situation. +</I> +Start->Tools->System Tools->Configure your Computer->Install/Remove software- +><i>Click first dropdown box and choose backports +</I> +Now, maybe the user interface needs to be improved. For example, maybe there +should be no dropdown box, but instead when searching for a package by name, +it should show you all the versions: + +============================================================================ +Find: | digikam | In: ->Graphical applications |By: ->Package Name +---------------------------------------------------------------------------- +Package| |Status | Action ++digikam |Security update recommended |Update | +- 1.3.0-1mdv |Installed |Uninstall | +- 1.3.0-1.1mdv |Security Update |Update | +- 1.4.0-4mdv |Unsupported upgrade (backport) |Upgrade | + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------- +digikam - A KDE ........ + +============================================================================= + + +Alternatively, maybe a "What's new" view? + +Maybe a rating/voting/popularity system should be available, however in the +past people had complained about privacy issues, which I think may have +resulted in little effort being put into completion of drakstats. + +So, maybe a web site should also be developed, which allows users to also +access package rating information, and which provides some kind of +installation feature. + +><i> I do not use any IM service, personally I find abhorrent subject, like many +</I>><i> other modern gadgets, but not going to close my eyes to the reality of +</I>><i> their continued use. +</I> +Well, using an IM service with a non-standardised protocol belongs in the age +of proprietary network services. + +GoogleTalk and Facebook both support XMPP, a standardised protocol ... + +(I use IM a lot, but don't have an MSN account). + +><i> Without being interpreted as an offence, for the same reasons, I think your +</I>><i> own list is not important. The only list that should matter is that +</I>><i> determined by a reliable and time hopefully. That list that reflects what +</I>><i> the needs of end users. +</I> +The point is that there probably can't ever be a definitive list. We need to +make it easier to get information on what users desire to the people who can +provide it to them. + +For example, I *know* some people use openldap backports, but besides other +Mandriva contributors, no Mandriva user has ever indicated that they want it +... + +><i> If we actually stopped to see the problem of Internet access charges, never +</I>><i> get to do anything for fear that the final product will not reach users. +</I>><i> If this really were a factor, the distributions would never have grown +</I>><i> from a few floppy disks, many floppies to a CD, 2 CD, 3 CD and now DVD +</I>><i> (Tomorrow 2 DV and so on?). +</I> +There is a difference between making the distribution unusable by people who +most of the time have limited internet bandwidth, and providing a distribution +that is usable with limited bandwidth after installation but allows users with +more bandwidth to have more up-to-date packages. + +><i> > What if more people actually contributed ... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Again, without trying to offend: at this stage of Mageia try to think +</I>><i> collectively, at least in my humble opinion this is to contribute, do not +</I>><i> you think so? +</I> +I think one problem Mandriva had was that users refused to believe that: +-Mandriva was open +-Contributors could easily improve the distribution +-Mandriva probably already had most of what they wanted, and if it didn't, +they should do what they can do to help + +For example, many people complained about bugs that get no attention, but *1* +contributor managed to change that perception to some extent. However, if more +people contributed, more bugs would actually be fixed. + +Mandriva the company may have been a barrier to contribution to some, and I +think one of the most important aspects of Mageia is ensuring that +contributors know exactly what happens to their contribution, and knowing that +the financial state of a company does not impact the future availability of +the project to which they contributed. + +However, I believe that the way packages and releases were managed from a +technical perspective is better than in many other distros, and I don't want +to see us throw out methods that were technically sound, but were just not +known by many users. + +I don't believe that merely changing to some kind of rolling release will +improve matters for end users, they will just be more confused when they find +out that to install database support for OpenOffice.org, they need to upgrade +all of OpenOffice.org (taking an hour to download ~ 70MB), instead of just +being able to install openoffice.org-base (with a 2 minute download of 2MB). + +The problem is to make it *easier* for users to get new versions of software, +not to force everyone to upgrade constantly. + +Regards, +Buchan +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000952.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000971.html">[Mageia-dev] How will be the realese cycle? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#969">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#969">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#969">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#969">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |