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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000261.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000261.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6f622af68 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20100926/000261.html @@ -0,0 +1,175 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F50EF.5070105%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="000258.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="000266.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?</H1> + <B>andré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20i686%20must%20be%20Pentium%20II%20%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C4C9F50EF.5070105%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ?">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Sep 26 15:55:59 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#261">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#261">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#261">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#261">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Thomas Backlund a écrit : +><i> +</I>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 14:59: +</I>>><i> 2010/9/26 Thomas Backlund <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A> <mailto:<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">tmb at iki.fi</A>>> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Giuseppe Ghibò skrev 26.9.2010 02:09: +</I>>><i> > +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a +</I>>><i> firewall from +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but +</I>>><i> often you +</I>>><i> can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much +</I>>><i> more than +</I>>><i> getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when +</I>>><i> soemone try +</I>>><i> such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will +</I>>><i> be very +</I>>><i> disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a +</I>>><i> survey of +</I>>><i> oldest hardware based on own experiences. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> You still miss the point that in Mageia community there are many +</I>>><i> users that find 30-50e a _lot_ of money, and we dont want to shut +</I>>><i> them out. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I'm not decreasing the value of the money, but rather I was pointing out +</I>>><i> the false assumption that mageia (or the current inherited mandriva) +</I>>><i> would work and would work FINE (or at all) on that hardware just because +</I>>><i> it was using a compatible instruction set. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, it depends of what you consider "FINE". +</I>><i> I dont expect people using old hardware to try to get KDE or any 3d +</I>><i> stuff to work "FINE". +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But we have lightweight platforms such as lxde and xfce that both +</I>><i> works moderate/fast on a 200MHz+ platform with 128MB+ RAM. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Then if you want it as a server, its even easier... you dont even need +</I>><i> a DE/GUI, as it's manageable through console/shell. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I'm not against this, but if +</I>>><i> that we wanna support that kind of hardware there is MUCH MORE work to +</I>>><i> do (I suggested a LEGACY section in the wiki, but seems it wasn't +</I>>><i> caught) than just keeping the actual flags, because in that way if we +</I>>><i> don't change then nobody will complain. Even the simple lzma payload of +</I>>><i> rpm packages requires much more memory than in the past with gzip. I'm +</I>>><i> not sure with current squashfs for the initial ram disks. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I already cited there are other distro which maybe do a lot better this +</I>>><i> job. In many countries there isn't even the broadband, dialup, nor the +</I>>><i> electrical power for them. Right now you are almost assuming that a 10 +</I>>><i> years old instruction set is still a no go, and that our distro is +</I>>><i> optimized like the one of the One Laptop Per Child Project. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I know we dont optimize for OLPC. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, the instruction set is old, but there are many systems that are +</I>><i> older. and even if the hw is newer, it still does not enforce full +</I>><i> i686 spec, as seen for example with either missing CMOV or another +</I>><i> broken register. Even Intel got it wrong with some series of the +</I>><i> Pentium D wich didn't work with i686 series builds... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Sadly it +</I>>><i> isn't. But there is also a 2nd point: on old hardware it is still +</I>>><i> possible to run old software and old distros: strange but true. Such old +</I>>><i> software is still doing its dirty job. It's not that you get a trojan as +</I>>><i> soon as you put the nose out the net. There are still ways of +</I>>><i> configuring a distro on a LAN and trust in the people using the +</I>>><i> terminals locally. Many schools still use them. In a 2 hours lesson at +</I>>><i> school you can't wait half an our just to have your desktop booting..., +</I>><i> +</I>><i> It does not take half an hour if you use xfce/lxde. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> the same if you plan an antispam server with latest antispam tools on a +</I>>><i> server of that category (server that was doing it's dirty job with the +</I>>><i> distro of 2 or 3 generations ago). +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Oh, I know several servers out there running on i586 ~200Mhz that has +</I>><i> no problem what so ever keeping up with the spam/av filtering. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I also tried such old hardware, but there are much less bloated distro +</I>>><i> and less bloated kernels (even non-linux ones) that do the job (or a +</I>>><i> specific duty) on such hardware a lot better than ours. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Maybe so, but does that mean we should force them to _not_ use Mageia ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> -- +</I>><i> Thomas +</I>><i> ____ +</I>To cease support for i586 seems to me to be the height of arrogance. +If new i586-level hardware can still be bought somewhere in the world, +it is still current hardware. +And look at how many 5-year-old, and even 10-year-old, cars are still in +use. Since cars have inherently a much shorter life, computers bought +new 5 years ago, or even 10 years ago, should be still be considered +current hardware. It doesn't really matter if most users - concentrated +in the richer countries - have much more powerful hardware. As has +already been pointed out, there is 64-bit support, and a i686 +compilation of the kernel to satisfy those with newer hardware that +can't (32-bit processor or not enough memory) or prefer not to use the +64-bit compilations. +Note that the kernel is probably where most of the performance gains are +to be made with i686, so dropping i586 in favour of i686 would give +little in performance gains. +After all, don't we want almost everyone to be able to use Mageia ? +- andré +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="000258.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="000266.html">[Mageia-dev] i686 must be Pentium II ? +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#261">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#261">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#261">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#261">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |