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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
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| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-webteam/2011-July/001269.html | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-webteam/2011-July/001269.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-webteam/2011-July/001269.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..821e6365d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-webteam/2011-July/001269.html @@ -0,0 +1,282 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-webteam] [Bug 1956] Can not edit posts in forum (after timeout) + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-webteam%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-webteam%5D%20%5BBug%201956%5D%20Can%20not%20edit%20posts%20in%20forum%20%28after%0A%09timeout%29&In-Reply-To=%3C20110703162338.F249B4328C%40alamut.mageia.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="001268.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="001270.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-webteam] [Bug 1956] Can not edit posts in forum (after timeout)</H1> + <B>Maat</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-webteam%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-webteam%5D%20%5BBug%201956%5D%20Can%20not%20edit%20posts%20in%20forum%20%28after%0A%09timeout%29&In-Reply-To=%3C20110703162338.F249B4328C%40alamut.mageia.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-webteam] [Bug 1956] Can not edit posts in forum (after timeout)">bugzilla-daemon at mageia.org + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Jul 3 18:23:38 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001268.html">[Mageia-webteam] [Bug 1188] Topic subscription defaults wrong in forum +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001270.html">[Mageia-webteam] [Bug 1100] Admin demoted to Mod or simple user +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1269">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1269">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1269">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1269">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE><A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1956">https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1956</A> + +Maat <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-webteam">maat-ml at vilarem.net</A>> changed: + + What |Removed |Added +---------------------------------------------------------------------------- + CC| |<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-webteam">maat-ml at vilarem.net</A> + +--- Comment #13 from Maat <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-webteam">maat-ml at vilarem.net</A>> 2011-07-03 20:23:39 CEST --- +(In reply to comment #8) +><i> As I saw it the discussion on the real issue was minimal and the "decision" was +</I>><i> pushed without any proper agreement. +</I>><i> +</I> +Then let's see if we can do better here with objective arguments. + + +><i> > > and little or no consideration of the utility of the Forum as a research resource +</I>><i> > > for users and of the fact that this limit can make life difficult for those people +</I>><i> > > who spend time providing assistance to other users. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Exactly +</I>><i> +</I> +On the contrary : BIG consideration was given to this point. But these special +users that are helping others on a regular basis are not common users. As +packagers or translators, or sysadmin are not common users either. All follow +mentoring process and are given the proper privileges once they have been +considered ready to do their jobs without help or control... + +Users that write tutorials or that helps others on a regular basis can be +granted the proper privileges to edit own posts or other posts without +limitation. (Well for this point of posts needing permanent edition like +tutorials... see later doc-tool part which is a discussion) + +But on a default basis no-one with common sense would give root password on the +servers or allow Mr Unknown to push whatever package he wants to the official +repositories... well on a less critical context users privileges on official +forums need obviously to follow similar scheme as other teams. + +Roughy : + +=> Read only of topics for everybody (opensource way) +=> Comment / Create topics for common subscribers +=> More privileges for active forums contributors (like people helping others +on a regular basis or writing tutorials, or packagers that make the effort to +come to help users...) privileges that can vary depending of contributors +needs/activities. + + +><i> > You have to distinguish the forum-as-a-discussion-place (where keeping posts in +</I>><i> > their original form is crucial) and the forum-as-a-support/doc-tool-place +</I>><i> > (where obsoleting/updating posts, with update timestamps is crucial as well). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Both have their own contingencies and may be best served by distinct platform +</I>><i> > (the former is more in phpBB's original purpose, the latter more in an +</I>><i> > equivalent to <A HREF="http://stackoverflow.com/">http://stackoverflow.com/</A> platform). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > If those are to be served by the same platform, that makes several use cases to +</I>><i> > satisfy. And here obviously, the forum was first thought as a discussion +</I>><i> > platform. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well no actually :- +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://www.mageia.org/en/support/">http://www.mageia.org/en/support/</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> This shows the forum as primarily a "support forum" not as a discussion place. +</I>><i> +</I> +There is njon contradiction there : Many projects use bugtrackers like Buzilla +as a support system (others use mailing lists or Sourceforge/Savannah embedded +miniforums). All those don't allow late edition. And very few consider that +abnormal :) + +Support IS discussion and nothing more :) + +Considering it as a doc-tool place is another thing... very different indeed. + +This last point needs a proper and broader discussion because if you start +considering the forum as a place where storing tutorial, guides, howtos and +other things with a long lifetime you'll find wiki advocates on your way. And +till we have that point settled i'll remain prudent on edition features +activation and tutos/howtos/guides team building on the forum because that +would put me in position of puching ball (and i'm not that fond of such +roleplay). + +And to finish on that : we can separate discussions and permanent-doc-tool +publication with the same phpbb platform (provided the wiki/forum discussion is +properly dealt with)... but at the moment the forum is (i confirm) more thought +as a discussion/support platform thant a doc/tool/publication one. + +(We can also consider to change this during discussions) + +><i> > +</I>><i> > So you may of course argue of the contrary, but arguing won't lead as far as +</I>><i> > really giving a hand, joining the team and helping to better configure the +</I>><i> > team, the platform, and if needed, a distinct platform. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> By reporting this bug the intention was to give a hand at improving the forum +</I>><i> by making the job of those prepared to help and offer support easier. +</I> +Well, at the moment if you have a true need to edit your posts because they +look like +tiny tutos/guides/howtos and because you prefer to work on the forum for these +publication +we can start an experimentation with you (specific user role like tutorial +writer and/or specific +forum area with a name to be defined) and see if the result is positive / users +feedback... + +><i> Likewise with <A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1188">https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1188</A> which has also +</I>><i> fallen on stony ground. +</I>><i> +</I> +It did not... but i'm not sure doing the reqested change bring more good than +harm. +(It can be reverted though if we have many users complainig and it will not put +topic +flow at risk on the contrary of edition privileges) + + +><i> > Furthermore, arguing of one's experience with forum is not that much helpful - +</I>><i> > some have satisfying experience with forums with no edit capacity, as that was +</I>><i> > an expected behaviour. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The whole point of this bug report is that this is NOT expected behaviour. Most +</I>><i> of the helpers in this forum come from Mandriva where the forum worked just +</I>><i> fine without any time limit. +</I>><i> +</I> +In my opinion it IS expected behavior : if you push words to the world (IRL +speaking, or in mail or ir instant messaging) noone could expect to be able to +get back in the future to erase the said words. + +In a forum if you say something and that people refer to it later in the topic +(or elsewhere in personal blogs or bugtrackers or whatever) They expect the +targeted post not to change because if it changes drastically their answers +would loose sense. And that is not what one should expect. + + +><i> This bug report is not about politics but simply about the time limit on the +</I>><i> editing of posts. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Can we put the politics to one side and discuss just the bug please? +</I>><i> +</I> +Then you have technical and objective arguments on the matter itself here :) + +And for the "valid" reasons you gave : + +(In reply to comment #0) +><i> There are many valid reasons why it may be necessary to edit a post. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. It imparts incorrect information. +</I> +It could also allow to break valid information (think for example of spammers +that could post unharmful links like screenshots with basic user question then +change them 3 weeks later to push viagra or whatever) + +><i> 2. The information is out of date. +</I> +For this a later post is a better way because a big change on out of date +information would result in many posts making no sense (like "hey the link is +broken : here is the good one"). + +Further, sometimes the date can be still valid for some users or some versions +of software (think that people don't always follow the update rythm... changing +the data to match new versions would deprivate them from the original post +which is what they need) + +For that editors discipline is the only solution (choosing between new post +and/or update with a proper changelog so that users can know that the post was +edited when and why...) + +And we would not expect such discipline from every user... so we come back to +mentoring process and dedicated privileges for users that will play by the +rules... + +><i> 3. A minor edit would improve comprehension. +</I>><i> +</I> +For tutorials and things like that yes... but do we want forums to host such +pieces of valuable information ? (See wiki vs forums discussion here above) + +For discussions : better explain later so that posts of users asking for +precision do not loose sense. + +><i> In all these cases it is not appropriate to add another post to offer a +</I>><i> correction as it may be several pages from the original post, also the +</I>><i> incorrect post would still be available to be read. +</I>><i> +</I> +Well as said above, it is often better to have access to the original post +(wich is not necessarily "incorrect") so that the logic flow of the following +post is not broken. (Again: except for reference posts like tutos). + + +><i> Forum posts are searched and used to solve problems in a similar way to the +</I>><i> wiki. +</I>><i> Imagine the author not being able to edit a wiki entry. +</I> +Yes but we DO HAVE a wiki and the forum is not necessarily supposed to compete +with it... if you try to push the idea of having long life piece of information +on the forum you'll have to pass over the dead bodies of wikis advocates :o) + + +><i> BTW I tried to get a post modified by reporting it to the mods with clear +</I>><i> instructions about what needed changing and it's now at 3 days and counting +</I>><i> with no response. +</I> +You have had your post modified... there is still a mod we to finish (because +nothin fit our needs for that) to accelerate processing of reports. Once done +you'll wait far less. + +And for making a topic as Sloved a mod is also on it's way : so no need for +edition on this aspect :) + +-- +Configure bugmail: <A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email">https://bugs.mageia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email</A> +------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- +You are the assignee for the bug. +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="001268.html">[Mageia-webteam] [Bug 1188] Topic subscription defaults wrong in forum +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="001270.html">[Mageia-webteam] [Bug 1100] Admin demoted to Mod or simple user +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#1269">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#1269">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#1269">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#1269">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-webteam">More information about the Mageia-webteam +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |