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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
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| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2012-March/004333.html | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
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| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2012-March/004333.html | 202 |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2012-March/004333.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2012-March/004333.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..45b4cae52 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2012-March/004333.html @@ -0,0 +1,202 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-sysadm] [forums-discuss] Re: updating sysadmin privileges in forum config + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-sysadm%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-sysadm%5D%20%5Bforums-discuss%5D%20Re%3A%20updating%20sysadmin%0A%20privileges%20in%20forum%20config&In-Reply-To=%3CCA%2Bh4nj5KG3sDFmqDAmuv%3D8h7NnfdUqEh0duM5ZWxnJJBeUvX9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="004332.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="004288.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-sysadm] [forums-discuss] Re: updating sysadmin privileges in forum config</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-sysadm%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-sysadm%5D%20%5Bforums-discuss%5D%20Re%3A%20updating%20sysadmin%0A%20privileges%20in%20forum%20config&In-Reply-To=%3CCA%2Bh4nj5KG3sDFmqDAmuv%3D8h7NnfdUqEh0duM5ZWxnJJBeUvX9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-sysadm] [forums-discuss] Re: updating sysadmin privileges in forum config">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Mar 27 10:16:00 CEST 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="004332.html">[Mageia-sysadm] [forums-discuss] Re: updating sysadmin privileges in forum config +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="004288.html">[Mageia-sysadm] updating sysadmin privileges in forum config +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#4333">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#4333">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#4333">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#4333">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>First let me express my appreciation for putting so much time into +explanations of points I now understand more clearly than before. + +2012/3/26 Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-sysadm">misc at zarb.org</A>>: +><i> +</I>><i> For example : +</I>><i> <A HREF="http://svnweb.mageia.org/adm/puppet/modules/phpbb/templates/config.php?revision=1625&view=markup">http://svnweb.mageia.org/adm/puppet/modules/phpbb/templates/config.php?revision=1625&view=markup</A> +</I>><i> that's config.php. Anyone knowing php ( or asp, or jsp ) would +</I>><i> intuitively understand the format ( ie, database is a variable given +</I>><i> somewhere else ) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The git checkout url is in another file, to get it : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> git clone <A HREF="git://git.mageia.org/forum/">git://git.mageia.org/forum/</A> foo +</I>><i> +</I>><i> and we just remove "phpBB/install" after checkout. +</I> +Yes, that is a must after installation, forum software checks for that. + +><i> When I mean "being up to date", i mean using the same tool we use for +</I>><i> others packages to know there is a update, etc. +</I>><i> IE, having the package up to date. The same goes for "quality". Web +</I>><i> developpers tend to focus on the use case of "I have a shared space and +</I>><i> I cannot change nything to it", which is not our case. We can change +</I>><i> apache config, we can put some stuff outside of the web root, etc. +</I> +When we (mandrivauser.de) set up phpBB (and later phpBB3) we used +Mandriva as server os and there was not much to change in apache +(forum related), I remember we had to change one setting in php.ini, +that was all. In fact we had (still have now on Debian) a similar +setup, except that we installed phpBB directly without git. + +><i> But that's a difficult problem to solve, and in the mean term, we should +</I>><i> have a solution, and I think therefor sticking to stock software is the +</I>><i> best compromise. I am aware that some mod would make stuff better ( for +</I>><i> example, to have a decent url, helping for visibility, etc ) and i am +</I>><i> sure that they are all enhancing the forum ( I mean, no one will do a +</I>><i> mod to make it worst ), but they are not free in term of ressources to +</I>><i> integrate. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So that's a tradeoff. It is better, but then you have to do some work +</I>><i> for each upgrade, etc. +</I> +Yes. But as I see in the forum, requests for changes are almost all in +the /styles section, that are not MODs, just changing of lines in the +templates. So no security related software involved. Examples: moving +or adding a line with a link, etc. or another icon set. Of course this +has to be documented because it has to be changed at each update. + +><i> Now we decided to use phpbb, I guess we will stick to it. A migration +</I>><i> would take too much time, and despites having a setup that can be +</I>><i> improved ( to my eyes ), it seems to do the job. +</I> +Yes. + +><i> But the point is still valid,  if people wish to help or think they can +</I>><i> do a better job than us ( and I think we are not perfect, I do not deny +</I>><i> ), we can arrange something. +</I> +No, through all these discussions (here and in the forum +(unfortunately I have the time to read both)) I never had the +impression that somebody wrote he could do better than your team. + +><i> Part of the problem is first what do people mean by "admin". +</I> +Yes. I explained that several times but I realize that this was +probably only in forum discussions. + +><i> To me, this mean "system admin", and even if I tried to use sysadmin for +</I>><i> that meaning, I am sure that I have slipped more than once. +</I>><i> And while it may not have been obvious, I only speak of the sysadmin +</I>><i> side of the thing. +</I> +Yes. OTOH I (and others) never meant "sysadmin" with "admin". A +sysadmin is an admin for a special purpose, that's why he has those 3 +extra letters (sys) in the name. A forum-admin also has a special +purpose, that's why he has "forum-" in his name. So "admin" is a +rather generic term which can mean anything. To know what kind of +admin is meant you need to add the prefix or extra letters. + +><i> From what I remember : +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - there is mga-sysadmin group, 10 person, who ( for the forum ) : +</I>><i>  - access the server, databases and can commit to puppet or modify +</I>><i> directly the db, and grant access to git +</I>><i> +</I>><i> - there is the mga-forum_developer group, of 3 person ( now 2 ), who : +</I>><i>  - have write access to the code of phpbb hosted in our git ( see url +</I>><i> before ) +</I>><i>  - should have enough access to upgrade the forum ( but do not know ) +</I> +><i> the deployment is planned to be automatised, but that's not done ( my +</I>><i> point was that sysadmin will do it by hand until sufficiently annoyed, +</I>><i> and until the know how to automate it, until then we have to do the +</I>><i> upgrade by hand to see what need to be coded, or wait for a patch for +</I>><i> that ). I cannot speak for the others, but I do not plan to blindly code +</I>><i> without doing a few test runs so without request to upgrade forum. +</I> +Just to give you an idea how much has changed so far I posted an url +of the changelogs (more than 150 bug fixes) a little earlier in this +thread. The update can be done automatically, but only in a custom +setup with a custom forum. If you have only changed templates you can +do it as well automatically but you have to repeat the template +changes ion the new version. If you have implemented MODs or otherwise +changed the code you have to do the updates manually which normally +takes me (roughly) 2 work days, but I am a slow worker :). +You get a set of "changed files" and normally you just copy them over +the old files. If you changed something in those files (and had it +documented!) then you have to do the same change in the new file. And +you can not update from n to n+2, you have to go from n to n+1 to n+2. + +Then you start testing, no matter which setup you have. When I do +changes or an update I do it locally first for testing, later on the +server. This is about code changes or updates, it's not so hard. + +But what about changes in the template? Most requests of forum users +involve only templates (like moving or adding a forum line with a +link). These changes can be done (and have already been done in the +Mageia forums) by the forum admin in the ACP without involving git or +sysadmins or mga-forum_developers. Hopefully those are documented. + +><i> on the side of forum management, well, I do not know. That's the part +</I>><i> where someone step in and complete my mail. +</I> +Well, in a forum we only need 2 kinds of "admins": + - the forum admin who is visible in the forum, participates in +discussions, a contact for users in case of requests or complaints, a +contact in case of issues between users (if the Global Moderators are +not able to solve it). Here in fact it is the human social and +communicative side which is more important than technical knowledge. +He is the "team leader" of the moderators, doing organisational things +in the forum (like changing settings in the ACP). That is the +important position which was not filled most of the time up to now. + - the technical forum admin. Somebody with phpbb knowledge who can +work with mga-forum_developer_group and/or sysadmin team to do code +changes and updates. He is in close contact with "forum admin" who +forwards requests of forum users or issues of technical nature +occuring in the daily life of the forum to him. He is the "bridge" to +sysadmin group. Of course this can be somebody of the sysadmin group +or forum_devels as well. He must not be present or communicative in +the forum. + +OTOH these 2 positions can be filled by one person as well but both +are equally important. + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="004332.html">[Mageia-sysadm] [forums-discuss] Re: updating sysadmin privileges in forum config +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="004288.html">[Mageia-sysadm] updating sysadmin privileges in forum config +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#4333">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#4333">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#4333">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#4333">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-sysadm">More information about the Mageia-sysadm +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |