diff options
| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011 | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-master.tar archives-master.tar.gz archives-master.tar.bz2 archives-master.tar.xz archives-master.zip | |
Diffstat (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011')
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005622.html | 97 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005623.html | 82 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005624.html | 103 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005625.html | 74 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005626.html | 93 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005627.html | 97 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/author.html | 77 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/date.html | 77 | ||||
| l--------- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/index.html | 1 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/subject.html | 77 | ||||
| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/thread.html | 87 |
11 files changed, 865 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005622.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005622.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..003476faa --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005622.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3Cj71eql%24p2p%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="005623.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience</H1> + <B>TJ</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3Cj71eql%24p2p%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience">andrewsfarm at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Oct 11 15:03:16 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005623.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5622">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5622">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5622">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5622">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 10/10/2011 05:31 PM, Michael Scherer wrote: +><i> Le lundi 10 octobre 2011 à 17:40 +0200, Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +</I>>><i> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 16:34, Frank Griffin<<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">ftg at roadrunner.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>>><i> The goal should be rather that the user has less or no *need* to look at the +</I>>>><i> help. But it needs to be there for safety and comfort. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Yes, that's the point. Making the installer so the user can be +</I>>><i> confident enough into it and shouldn't have to call for help (then +</I>>><i> installer "story" would then anticipate potential fears). And still +</I>>><i> make help available as a last resort. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But the installer can mess the disk. So it has to be scary enough so +</I>><i> people stop and think about what they do. +</I>><i> +</I>It certainly can. Or could, a few years back, if there was an underlying +problem. Mandrake 10 did that to me a while back. I had purchased a new +computer, and rather than simply migrating my Windows 98 system to it on +one big partition and then installing Mandrake 10 on the unused space, I +used the hard drive manufacturer's software to create two partitions, +one for Windows, another to be for Mandrake. Unknown to me, the +partition table was incorrect. When Mandrake installed, it destroyed the +Windows partition - even though I had instructed it to use the other +one. Unfortunately, I blamed Mandrake 10, and tried installing Mandrake +9.2 after restoring Windows again. That worked fine, reinforcing my +mistaken belief that there was a serious bug in Mandrake 10. + +I looked for help on Usenet, and got only insults because of my lack of +knowledge and experience, and because I insisted in blaming Mandrake +because that's what the evidence I saw looked like to me. So, I decided +to try Fedora Core 4. That refused to install, thus forcing me to look +more closely at what was wrong. Partition Magic identified the problem +right away and fixed it, and I was able to go ahead with Fedora. (I +didn't go back to Mandrake because the installer hadn't seen that there +was a problem, as Fedora had.) But Fedora wasn't for me, and I came back +to Mandrake after a year or so. (or was it Mandriva by then?) + +So yes, the installer certainly can mess things up, or appear to be the +cause, anyway. And to a newbie who feels like he's on his own, that's a +very scary thing. + +TJ + + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005623.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5622">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5622">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5622">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5622">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005623.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005623.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ec7907ed3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005623.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3CCANa9xwvu6KV6u1h5%3D4Cb%3D2L-MuO%2BBjmfcdLpuZFKKh4Ge17U6g%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="005622.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="005624.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3CCANa9xwvu6KV6u1h5%3D4Cb%3D2L-MuO%2BBjmfcdLpuZFKKh4Ge17U6g%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Oct 11 16:30:15 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005622.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005624.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5623">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5623">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5623">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5623">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 23:31, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +><i> Le lundi 10 octobre 2011 à 17:40 +0200, Romain d'Alverny a écrit : +</I>>><i> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 16:34, Frank Griffin <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">ftg at roadrunner.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> > The goal should be rather that the user has less or no *need* to look at the +</I>>><i> > help.  But it needs to be there for safety and comfort. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Yes, that's the point. Making the installer so the user can be +</I>>><i> confident enough into it and shouldn't have to call for help (then +</I>>><i> installer "story" would then anticipate potential fears). And still +</I>>><i> make help available as a last resort. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But the installer can mess the disk. So it has to be scary enough so +</I>><i> people stop and think about what they do. +</I> +Right, but again, what do we want? Scare/bother users, or make them +confident and productive with the tools we provide them with? (this +relates to my other remark regarding "listening to a song" / "getting +the right codecs"). + +Note, I'm not pretending we should just throw away the good parts of +what we have, but we should think again, from a larger perspective, +from the user point of view, how to make the system more helpful (as +in, it's not because you're an expert that your tools should not have +a default simple setup). + +Romain +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005622.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005624.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5623">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5623">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5623">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5623">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005624.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005624.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5f5a8bcdd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005624.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] New install + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20New%20install&In-Reply-To=%3C4E9485EA.2040307%40transauto.com.br%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="005623.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="005625.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] New install</H1> + <B>Luiz Alberto Saba</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20New%20install&In-Reply-To=%3C4E9485EA.2040307%40transauto.com.br%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] New install">las at transauto.com.br + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Oct 11 20:07:38 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005623.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005625.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5624">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5624">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5624">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5624">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Hi all + +I'm a linux user for more than 10 years. +Initially, I've used Conectiva and then switched to Mandrake. +I've deployed Mandriva at almost all machines (~70) at work (I'm the IT +manager, so, the users complained a lot, initially, but now they feel +linux ok). +My personal machine always have been cooker (work & home). +I've done some Mageia installs at work (including my Cauldron machine) +but I was afraid of "converting" my cooker machine at home (a little bit +unorthodox configuration). +About 2 weeks ago, I dit it. +Here's my feedback: + +1. I have a local mirror of Mageia, so, I've tried to burn a boot.iso cd +(Cauldron) and do a HD install. No way. The installer complained that +can not find Core 32. +2. Next try DVD (x86_64) (Mageia 1, of course). No problems at all. +3. After first boot, I've removed DVD resitories and added my local +mirror. I did a urpmi --auto-select to update the installation. That's +when the problems started. +I have 4 internal HDs as jbod, 2 more internal HDs as a RAID 0 disk and +an external HD connected as e-sata. My linux boot disk is sda (RAID 0 is +a windows 7 disk). During the update of kernel, mageia tools did a +complete mess with device.map, menu.lst and install.sh (at /boot/grub). +Go back to DVD boot, and I've managed to edit the files manually and +boot normally again. +4. It's time to Cauldron! Fine upgrade. No errors unless the mess with +boot again. +Again DVD boot, etc... +Now, every time I install or upgrade a kernel, I have to manually edit +device.map, menu.lst and install.sh BEFORE rebooting. +Mageia tools insists that RAID 0 is hd0 and my sda is hd1. That way I +can't boot at all (linux & windows). The only way to my configuration +work ok is naming sda as hd0 and RAID 0 as hd4 (which is the BIOS order, +by the way...). + +Apart of this problem (do not feel so bad. Mandriva did the same mess), +congratulations to all of you who did an excellent job in a short time. + +Luiz Alberto Saba + +P.S.1: I use rpmsync in my mirroring script. Had to use the mandriva +version, since Mageia do not have this script... +P.S.2: My printer was connected via USB & network, yet the installer did +nothing. Only after the first boot I've managed to configure the +printer. Why? +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005623.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005625.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5624">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5624">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5624">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5624">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005625.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005625.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0636f3197 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005625.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] New install + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20New%20install&In-Reply-To=%3C4E948A6A.9060703%40roadrunner.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="005624.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="005626.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] New install</H1> + <B>Frank Griffin</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20New%20install&In-Reply-To=%3C4E948A6A.9060703%40roadrunner.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] New install">ftg at roadrunner.com + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Oct 11 20:26:50 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005624.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005626.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5625">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5625">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5625">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5625">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On 10/11/2011 02:07 PM, Luiz Alberto Saba wrote: +><i> Hi all +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. I have a local mirror of Mageia, so, I've tried to burn a boot.iso +</I>><i> cd (Cauldron) and do a HD install. No way. The installer complained +</I>><i> that can not find Core 32. +</I> +<A HREF="https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2854">https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2854</A> + +><i> +</I>><i> P.S.2: My printer was connected via USB & network, yet the installer +</I>><i> did nothing. Only after the first boot I've managed to configure the +</I>><i> printer. Why? +</I>><i> +</I>Printer configuration was removed from the Mandriva install years ago +when the switch was made from printerdrake to system-config-printer (I +think), and Mageia didn't put it back. +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005624.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005626.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5625">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5625">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5625">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5625">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005626.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005626.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..551284726 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005626.html @@ -0,0 +1,93 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3C1318361743.14996.11.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="005625.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="005627.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3C1318361743.14996.11.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Oct 11 21:35:43 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005625.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005627.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5626">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5626">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5626">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5626">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le lundi 10 octobre 2011 à 23:37 +0200, Oliver Burger a écrit : +><i> Am Montag, 10. Oktober 2011, 23:29:08 schrieb Michael Scherer: +</I>><i> > With the problem of having experienced people leaving, because "mandrake +</I>><i> > is a distribution for newbie, i am not a newbie, therefor, mandrake is +</I>><i> > not for me". This surely helped debian or fedora to get contributers. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> Yes, that's why I always pressed at the linux events I was present, that in +</I>><i> the past Mandrake/Mandriva and now Mageia is a distribution, that makes it +</I>><i> easy for newbies to start, but isn't holding back anything for experienced +</I>><i> users. +</I>><i> Other than yast did in the past and still does in parts, the draktools don't +</I>><i> overwrite any configuration but parses it correctly. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We have to make it clear, that we do care about newbies but we don't "lay any +</I>><i> stones in the way" of experienced users. +</I>><i> After all, if we did, most of us wouldn't use it, would we? +</I> +As I may have said before, Apple do it right, they do not say the word +newbie or beginner at all, see their website. + +So someone reading Apple marketing material will think of simplicity, or +a system that doesnt get in the way, but it doesn't think "that's great +for people that know nothing to computer". Apple prepared a narrative +explaing the elegance, the power, etc. + +The simple evocation of "beginner" will make people think about a +separation between newbie and experts ( what psychologists call a +framing effect, see <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnX5v0uwNjc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnX5v0uwNjc</A> ). If we +speak of newbie, then people will feel sooner or later the need to find +their position on this supposed separation, with the problem we +highlighted. + +And so I think we should simply ban the word from our official +communication. +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005625.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="005627.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5626">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5626">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5626">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5626">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005627.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005627.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ce1f75162 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/005627.html @@ -0,0 +1,97 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3CCA%2Bh4nj7QyaBMDhvGdYxdagUcjUqbHZ2JYPbvnZakOV5%3DAXa1Qw%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="005626.html"> + + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience</H1> + <B>Wolfgang Bornath</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia%20review%20with%20bad%20experience&In-Reply-To=%3CCA%2Bh4nj7QyaBMDhvGdYxdagUcjUqbHZ2JYPbvnZakOV5%3DAXa1Qw%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience">molch.b at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005626.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5627">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5627">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5627">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5627">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>2011/10/11 Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">misc at zarb.org</A>>: +><i> Le lundi 10 octobre 2011 à 23:37 +0200, Oliver Burger a écrit : +</I>>><i> Am Montag, 10. Oktober 2011, 23:29:08 schrieb Michael Scherer: +</I>>><i> > With the problem of having experienced people leaving, because "mandrake +</I>>><i> > is a distribution for newbie, i am not a newbie, therefor, mandrake is +</I>>><i> > not for me". This surely helped debian or fedora to get contributers. +</I>>><i> > +</I>>><i> Yes, that's why I always pressed at the linux events I was present, that in +</I>>><i> the past Mandrake/Mandriva and now Mageia is a distribution, that makes it +</I>>><i> easy for newbies to start, but isn't holding back anything for experienced +</I>>><i> users. +</I>>><i> Other than yast did in the past and still does in parts, the draktools don't +</I>>><i> overwrite any configuration but parses it correctly. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> We have to make it clear, that we do care about newbies but we don't "lay any +</I>>><i> stones in the way" of experienced users. +</I>>><i> After all, if we did, most of us wouldn't use it, would we? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> As I may have said before, Apple do it right, they do not say the word +</I>><i> newbie or beginner at all, see their website. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> So someone reading Apple marketing material will think of simplicity, or +</I>><i> a system that doesnt get in the way, but it doesn't think "that's great +</I>><i> for people that know nothing to computer". Apple prepared a narrative +</I>><i> explaing the elegance, the power, etc. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The simple evocation of "beginner" will make people think about a +</I>><i> separation between newbie and experts ( what psychologists call a +</I>><i> framing effect, see <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnX5v0uwNjc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnX5v0uwNjc</A> ). If we +</I>><i> speak of newbie, then people will feel sooner or later the need to find +</I>><i> their position on this supposed separation, with the problem we +</I>><i> highlighted. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And so I think we should simply ban the word from our official +</I>><i> communication. +</I> +I also used (with Mandriva and Mageia) to make a point that these +distributions cater to all kind of users, be they on beginner, +experienced or expert level. But I see the advantage to leave this out +of our "marketing". The better path would be to call it "straight +forward, just what you want it to be". + +-- +wobo +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="005626.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A></li> + + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#5627">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#5627">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#5627">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#5627">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..13114b131 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 11 October 2011 Archive by author</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>11 October 2011 Archives by author</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 15:03:16 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 6<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="005627.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5627"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005625.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A><A NAME="5625"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005624.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A><A NAME="5624"> </A> +<I>Luiz Alberto Saba +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005626.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5626"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005622.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5622"> </A> +<I>TJ +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005623.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5623"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:58 CEST 2011</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/date.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/date.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..903a6a5a3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/date.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 11 October 2011 Archive by date</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>11 October 2011 Archives by date</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 15:03:16 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 6<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="005622.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5622"> </A> +<I>TJ +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005623.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5623"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005624.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A><A NAME="5624"> </A> +<I>Luiz Alberto Saba +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005625.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A><A NAME="5625"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005626.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5626"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005627.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5627"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:58 CEST 2011</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/index.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/index.html new file mode 120000 index 000000000..db4b46f72 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/index.html @@ -0,0 +1 @@ +thread.html
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/subject.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/subject.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4c31a9393 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/subject.html @@ -0,0 +1,77 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 11 October 2011 Archive by subject</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>11 October 2011 Archives by subject</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 15:03:16 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 6<p> + <ul> + +<LI><A HREF="005622.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5622"> </A> +<I>TJ +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005623.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5623"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005626.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5626"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005627.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5627"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005624.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A><A NAME="5624"> </A> +<I>Luiz Alberto Saba +</I> + +<LI><A HREF="005625.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A><A NAME="5625"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:58 CEST 2011</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + <a href="thread.html#start">[ thread ]</a> + + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/thread.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/thread.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..319988074 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20111011/thread.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <title>The Mageia-discuss 11 October 2011 Archive by thread</title> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <a name="start"></A> + <h1>11 October 2011 Archives by thread</h1> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p><b>Starting:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 15:03:16 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Ending:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Messages:</b> 6<p> + <ul> + +<!--0 01318338196- --> +<LI><A HREF="005622.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5622"> </A> +<I>TJ +</I> + +<!--0 01318343415- --> +<LI><A HREF="005623.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5623"> </A> +<I>Romain d'Alverny +</I> + +<!--0 01318356458- --> +<LI><A HREF="005624.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A><A NAME="5624"> </A> +<I>Luiz Alberto Saba +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01318356458-01318357610- --> +<LI><A HREF="005625.html">[Mageia-discuss] New install +</A><A NAME="5625"> </A> +<I>Frank Griffin +</I> + +</UL> +<!--0 01318361743- --> +<LI><A HREF="005626.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5626"> </A> +<I>Michael Scherer +</I> + +<UL> +<!--1 01318361743-01318369193- --> +<LI><A HREF="005627.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia review with bad experience +</A><A NAME="5627"> </A> +<I>Wolfgang Bornath +</I> + +</UL> + </ul> + <p> + <a name="end"><b>Last message date:</b></a> + <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:53 CEST 2011</i><br> + <b>Archived on:</b> <i>Tue Oct 11 23:39:58 CEST 2011</i> + <p> + <ul> + <li> <b>Messages sorted by:</b> + + <a href="subject.html#start">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#start">[ author ]</a> + <a href="date.html#start">[ date ]</a> + <li><b><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More info on this list... + </a></b></li> + </ul> + <p> + <hr> + <i>This archive was generated by + Pipermail 0.09 (Mailman edition).</i> + </BODY> +</HTML> + |