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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
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| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2013-February/022483.html | |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2013-February/022483.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2013-February/022483.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..87c9654f8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2013-February/022483.html @@ -0,0 +1,180 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] musical session locations + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20musical%20session%20locations&In-Reply-To=%3C5110EBF8.9040708%40colin.guthr.ie%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="022447.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="022448.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] musical session locations</H1> + <B>Colin Guthrie</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20musical%20session%20locations&In-Reply-To=%3C5110EBF8.9040708%40colin.guthr.ie%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] musical session locations">mageia at colin.guthr.ie + </A><BR> + <I>Tue Feb 5 12:24:40 CET 2013</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="022447.html">[Mageia-dev] musical session locations (was: Grub2 vs. Grub Leg...) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="022448.html">[Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#22483">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#22483">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#22483">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#22483">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>'Twas brillig, and Felix Miata at 04/02/13 21:56 did gyre and gimble: +>><i> I think that startx and init are deprecated in favour of proper systemd +</I>>><i> commands now. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Init at shell prompt is shorthand/alias for insanely long non-memorable +</I>><i> systemd replacements for telinit/init. +</I> +"init" still works for now. It likely will for as long as we have some +degree of runlevel mappings - I can't see these going away anytime soon +as there is no real need. + +I still think "systemctl default" or "systemctl start graphical.target" +is semantically clearer and thus likely easier to remember than the +entirely abstract "init 5" which, although shorter, it's semantically +meaningless by itself. That said, with both you need some degree of +knowledge anyway and thus the net difference in terms of such things is +likely zero overall. + +><i> Startx may be deprecated, but no one who's told me so has suggested +</I>><i> what's supposed to replace it to get 2nd, 3rd & more X sessions going on +</I>><i> :1, :2, etc. +</I> +It's a deprecated technique, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still +work. Nothing will specifically replace it, other than the functionality +already built into the Desktop Environments for many years where you can +do "Fast User Switching" or "Login as another User" which will +automatically start another X session on :1 or :2 as needed. + +Logging in multiple times as the same user is something that's, +generally speaking, not officially supported by most of the DE's these +days - i.e. trying to login as yourself during "Fast user switch" will +often just switch you back to and unlock your original session. + +>>><i> On current +</I>>>><i> boot I used 3 on cmdline, logged in on tty2 & tty3, did startx on tty3, +</I>>>><i> and found X is running on tty3. On exiting the X session I did init 5. +</I>>>><i> That put KDM on tty1. On openSUSE & Fedora the problem is essentially +</I>>>><i> the same, e.g.: <A HREF="https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=768788">https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=768788</A> +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> I don't think this is grub2 related. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Of course it's not. It's fallout from incomplete migration from sysvinit +</I>><i> to systemd. Systemd is designed to not do a significant number of things +</I>><i> that sysvinit did do, so things are broken that haven't been modified to +</I>><i> do what the functioning init system no longer does, or account for +</I>><i> everything the replacement init system does differently. +</I> +Citation needed. What are these "significant number of things" that +sysvinit did? + +>><i> Graphical desktop should default to tty1 now +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I have predfined uses for ttys 1-6. 7, 8 & 9 are where my X sessions +</I>><i> belong, not on 1 and random others making me guess each time what lives +</I>><i> where. Tty1 especially needs not to be where X goes, because it's where +</I>><i> in help forums everyone dealing with non-working X is told to login to +</I>><i> do this and do that to troubleshoot. +</I> +Oh jeeze, this was discussed prior to Mageia 2. I'm really not going to +entertain such nonsense now. If you want it different, then fine - knock +yourself out, edit all the various things you need to edit (this +includes modifying multiple DM configurations and also editing the +default prefdm.service file to ensure it doesn't conflict with +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">getty at tty1.service</A> and also (likely) statically starting +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">getty at tt</A>{2,3,4,5,6}.service also if you want these pre-launched (thus +blocking any future X11 from being launched there. + +It's your system, you can do what you want with it, but OOTB we will be +trying to provide a logical user experience that is not tied to some +historical, syntactically and logically irrelevant concept. + +Things are far more complex than they used to be with multiple seats +being dynamically added and removed and DMs have to cope with a +multitude of different conditions. Things have to be reexamined and +rethought from time to time. + + +><i> More about what systemd doesn't do that init did. Initab reserved ttys +</I>><i> 1-6 leaving 7+ free for X sessions. Systemd reserves none and doesn't +</I>><i> even start a getty until switch to a tty is made. +</I> +Yup, that's the OOTB behaviour. Don't like it? Fine, you are free to +configure things that way: + +sed 's/^\(Conflicts=\)/#\1/' /usr/lib/systemd/system/prefdm.service +><i>/etc/systemd/system/prefdm.service +</I>systemctl --system daemon-reload +systemctl -f enable prefdm.service + +# systemctl enable <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">getty at tty</A>{2,3,4,5,6}.service +# The above should be made to work, but it doesn't currently - patch pending +for tty in 2 3 4 5 6; do ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/system/<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">getty at .service</A> +/etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">getty at tty</A>${tty}.service; done + + +Reconfigure your DM to start on tty7 and you're done. + +That said, the whole VT concept is slowly dying anyway. Talks like this +at FOSDEM highlight this: +<A HREF="https://fosdem.org/2013/schedule/event/kmscon/">https://fosdem.org/2013/schedule/event/kmscon/</A> + +I'm afraid that if you want to keep such systems long into the future, +you better start keeping the current versions of distros around. The +only thing certain here, is change! + +Col + + + +-- + +Colin Guthrie +colin(at)mageia.org +<A HREF="http://colin.guthr.ie/">http://colin.guthr.ie/</A> + +Day Job: + Tribalogic Limited <A HREF="http://www.tribalogic.net/">http://www.tribalogic.net/</A> +Open Source: + Mageia Contributor <A HREF="http://www.mageia.org/">http://www.mageia.org/</A> + PulseAudio Hacker <A HREF="http://www.pulseaudio.org/">http://www.pulseaudio.org/</A> + Trac Hacker <A HREF="http://trac.edgewall.org/">http://trac.edgewall.org/</A> +</PRE> + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="022447.html">[Mageia-dev] musical session locations (was: Grub2 vs. Grub Leg...) +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="022448.html">[Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#22483">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#22483">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#22483">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#22483">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |