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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
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| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011260.html | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011260.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011260.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2dad045aa --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011260.html @@ -0,0 +1,234 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20please%20stop%20doing%20%22bugs%22%20for%20updating%20magia%201&In-Reply-To=%3CCAOPHaVTBpeDw7eGKfG%2BVdxWGmDNes3v98n9ZGDHx4M7UbvLmhw%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="011246.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="011250.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1</H1> + <B>Christian Lohmaier</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20please%20stop%20doing%20%22bugs%22%20for%20updating%20magia%201&In-Reply-To=%3CCAOPHaVTBpeDw7eGKfG%2BVdxWGmDNes3v98n9ZGDHx4M7UbvLmhw%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1">lohmaier+mageia at googlemail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 11 21:54:24 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011246.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011250.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11260">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11260">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11260">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11260">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Michael Scherer <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">misc at zarb.org</A>> wrote: +><i> Le mercredi 11 janvier 2012 à 17:48 +0100, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : +</I>>><i> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Guillaume Rousse +</I>>><i> <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">guillomovitch at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>>><i> > Le 11/01/2012 16:09, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : +</I>>><i> > +</I>>><i> >> As a Mageia user I would expect Mageia to package significant *bugfix +</I>>><i> >> releases* and ship them in the updates for the stable distro. +</I>>><i> > +</I>>><i> > You'd rather read the current update policy, rather than expect blind +</I>>><i> > assertions: +</I>>><i> > <A HREF="https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Updates_policy">https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Updates_policy</A> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Whoa - this is a rather stupid policy. (my opinion, yours obviously differs). +</I>>><i> "For the most part, an update should consist of a <bold>patched build +</I>>><i> of the same version</bold> of the package released with the +</I>>><i> distribution," +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I am pretty sure that you can express yourself without starting by +</I>><i> insulting people. +</I> +Well, if you feel insulted when I state my personal opinion about the +policy, then I cannot help it. +I also find a different word for it - In my opinion it is a stupid +policy. It might not reflect what was discussed on the mailinglist, +but that is not my fault either - I can only judge what is written on +that wiki-page, and once again: that policy doesn't make any sense to +me. +Feeling insulted means that you apparently were deeply involved in +formulating the policy, too bad, but cannot be helped. Sorry if your +feelings are hurt. + +>><i> Welcome to distro-isolation, putting burden on maintainers, giving +</I>>><i> them all the reason to deny a reasonable request for a bugfix release +</I>>><i> because it just is too much work to hunt for a specific commit that +</I>>><i> fixed bug x. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If that's too much work for a maintainer and if that's important for +</I>><i> you, you can : +</I>><i> - do your own package, supported by yourself for yourself +</I> +I do for the packages I care of. + +><i> or : +</I>><i> - provide the patch +</I> +No, that's pointless. I'd rather supply the patch upstream, so it will +be integrated in the upstream package. + +><i> If that's too much work for you too, then that's likely too much work +</I>><i> for others too. +</I> +You're mixing stuff around: We/I am talking about the case when there +*is* an bugfix release available from upstream, but the policy +dictates to extract individual patches for a subset of the fixes only- +and that subset being bugs filed in mageia's bugzilla. This doesn't +make sense. +If the maintainer could use the fixed upstream release, then all that +is needed is to bumb the version-tag in the spec and rebuild. You +don't question that this is easier than hunting down a patch and +adding that to the package, do you? +Any cases where just bumping the version and rebuilding won't work are +cases that don't fall in the bugfix-only category. + +>><i> > [...] +</I>>><i> > A bug may vary from a typo in a man page to a critical security update, +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> And a typo-fix is not worthwhile to have? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> When we take in account the fact it would still need proper QA, there is +</I>><i> likely stuff that are more important than a typo. And a typo is just a +</I>><i> extreme case, and a simplificaition. If we start to have a complex +</I>><i> update policy, we are just losing time for almost nothing. +</I> +No doubt about that - the above statement was more meant in the terms +of only applying selective fixes by patch, as opposed to taking the +release that has those bugs fixed+additional easy stuff. +So why only fix "bug that is reported in mageia's bugzilla", but not +"the typo that was fixed upstream". + +>><i> Sure, you cannot be save of regressions, but what makes you think you +</I>>><i> are smarter than upstream? What makes you so sure that not the one +</I>>><i> commit you add as a patch to your package is the one that causes the +</I>>><i> regressions? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For 1, we usually do not do distro patch. I personnaly think this should +</I>><i> be avoided as much as possible, and that we should push as much patch +</I>><i> upstream. We have a rather huge backlog to clean. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> For 2, we also usually take patch from upstream. Some of us are also +</I>><i> good enough to understand patchs, and to see what they mean, if they fix +</I>><i> something, etc. Of course, there is some software that are rather +</I>><i> specialized or obscure, but that's far from being the majority. +</I> +So then again: what makes selectively fixing bugs better in terms of +regression prevention than applying a bugfix release from upstream? +You an Juan Luis basically say: Less changes, less chance for +breakage. This is a "Milchmädchenrechnung" (naive assessment of the +situation). Fixed done by upstream are applied by people familiar with +the code in question, usually way more familiar than the package +maintainer. Yes the regressions do happen. Even if a fix looks simple, +it can introduce a regression. +And by only selectively applying patches it means that: You might have +a "lesser chance" of regressions, but instead of the regressions you +still have the other "regular bugs" that were fixed. + +>><i> Regressions have the nice habit of being triggered by changes in +</I>>><i> apparently unrelated code... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And that's why we should reduce the number of changes. +</I> +That's why reducing the number of changes won't help. + +><i> Maybe if you started to be less insulting, and instead started to look +</I>><i> at the discussion on the ml in the past on the list, +</I> +I might have had if the wiki policy did point to it. + +><i> when the policy was +</I>><i> discussed ( and access to the old wiki too ), you would likely find the +</I>><i> reasons saner. +</I> +Even with your explanations (thanks for taking the time), I still +disagree and still don't find them any more sane than before. + +The only good thing that you made clear is that you discourage +distro-only patches, but instead favor fixed that are directly from +upstream. + +ciao +Christian +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011246.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011250.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11260">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11260">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11260">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11260">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |