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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
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| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011246.html | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-master.tar archives-master.tar.gz archives-master.tar.bz2 archives-master.tar.xz archives-master.zip | |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011246.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011246.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..79d21a414 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-January/011246.html @@ -0,0 +1,218 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20please%20stop%20doing%20%22bugs%22%20for%20updating%20magia%201&In-Reply-To=%3C1326310379.19749.39.camel%40liliana.cdg.redhat.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="011321.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="011260.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20please%20stop%20doing%20%22bugs%22%20for%20updating%20magia%201&In-Reply-To=%3C1326310379.19749.39.camel%40liliana.cdg.redhat.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Wed Jan 11 20:32:59 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011321.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011260.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11246">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11246">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11246">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11246">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le mercredi 11 janvier 2012 à 17:48 +0100, Christian Lohmaier a écrit : +><i> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Guillaume Rousse +</I>><i> <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">guillomovitch at gmail.com</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> > Le 11/01/2012 16:09, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> >> As a Mageia user I would expect Mageia to package significant *bugfix +</I>><i> >> releases* and ship them in the updates for the stable distro. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > You'd rather read the current update policy, rather than expect blind +</I>><i> > assertions: +</I>><i> > <A HREF="https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Updates_policy">https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Updates_policy</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Whoa - this is a rather stupid policy. (my opinion, yours obviously differs). +</I>><i> "For the most part, an update should consist of a <bold>patched build +</I>><i> of the same version</bold> of the package released with the +</I>><i> distribution," +</I> +I am pretty sure that you can express yourself without starting by +insulting people. That would surely help to be listened ( cause right +now, I must tell that I am not very keen on that ) + +><i> Welcome to distro-isolation, putting burden on maintainers, giving +</I>><i> them all the reason to deny a reasonable request for a bugfix release +</I>><i> because it just is too much work to hunt for a specific commit that +</I>><i> fixed bug x. +</I> +If that's too much work for a maintainer and if that's important for +you, you can : +- do your own package, supported by yourself for yourself +or : +- provide the patch + +If that's too much work for you too, then that's likely too much work +for others too. + +><i> >> For example, it would be nice if an up-to-date Mageia 1 system had +</I>><i> >> Python 2.7.2 rather than Python 2.7.1 (not a deal-breaker, of course, +</I>><i> >> but nice). There's more than a hundred bug fixes between the two +</I>><i> >> versions and I don't expect Mageia to have independently fixed many of +</I>><i> >> these bugs. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > A bug may vary from a typo in a man page to a critical security update, +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And a typo-fix is not worthwhile to have? +</I> +When we take in account the fact it would still need proper QA, there is +likely stuff that are more important than a typo. And a typo is just a +extreme case, and a simplificaition. If we start to have a complex +update policy, we are just losing time for almost nothing. + +><i> > which make the number of claimed bugfix a poor decision metric. A +</I>><i> > non-regression ensurance would be a better one, but it's quite difficult to +</I>><i> > assert. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Don't assume all upstream projects are a bunch of clueless idiots. +</I> +We didn't say that. We just assume that errors happen to everybody. + +><i> For upstream releases that have a clear version/release scheme, with +</I>><i> micro releases being compatible bugfixes only, the above mentioned +</I>><i> policy is completely nonsense, same for your fear of regressions, etc. +</I> +Regressions do happens. + +><i> Sure, you cannot be save of regressions, but what makes you think you +</I>><i> are smarter than upstream? What makes you so sure that not the one +</I>><i> commit you add as a patch to your package is the one that causes the +</I>><i> regressions? +</I> +For 1, we usually do not do distro patch. I personnaly think this should +be avoided as much as possible, and that we should push as much patch +upstream. We have a rather huge backlog to clean. + +For 2, we also usually take patch from upstream. Some of us are also +good enough to understand patchs, and to see what they mean, if they fix +something, etc. Of course, there is some software that are rather +specialized or obscure, but that's far from being the majority. + +><i> Regressions have the nice habit of being triggered by changes in +</I>><i> apparently unrelated code... +</I> + +And that's why we should reduce the number of changes. + +><i> My 0.02€ only, but I strongly suggest for that update policy to be clarified. +</I>><i> When there is no dedicated bugfix release procedure in the upstream +</I>><i> package, an update is a rebuild of the same version with a +</I>><i> corresponding patch. That's reasonable (as opposed to using a newer +</I>><i> minor or even major release, those are backports). +</I>><i> But once again: if upstream has a major.minor.micro scheme with micro +</I>><i> versions being bugfix releases, I really don't see any sane reason for +</I>><i> not "allowing" those updates. +</I> +Maybe if you started to be less insulting, and instead started to look +at the discussion on the ml in the past on the list, when the policy was +discussed ( and access to the old wiki too ), you would likely find the +reasons saner. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011321.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011260.html">[Mageia-dev] please stop doing "bugs" for updating magia 1 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11246">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11246">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11246">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11246">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |