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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
|---|---|---|
| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-February/011911.html | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-master.tar archives-master.tar.gz archives-master.tar.bz2 archives-master.tar.xz archives-master.zip | |
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| -rw-r--r-- | zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-February/011911.html | 150 |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-February/011911.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-February/011911.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9e13d4add --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-February/011911.html @@ -0,0 +1,150 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2 + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%5Bchangelog%5D%20%5BRPM%5D%20cauldron%20core/release%0A%20task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2&In-Reply-To=%3C1329148935.27433.24.camel%40localhost%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="011913.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="011912.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%5Bchangelog%5D%20%5BRPM%5D%20cauldron%20core/release%0A%20task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2&In-Reply-To=%3C1329148935.27433.24.camel%40localhost%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Feb 13 17:02:15 CET 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011913.html">[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011912.html">[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11911">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11911">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11911">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11911">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le lundi 13 février 2012 à 10:35 +0100, Thierry Vignaud a écrit : +><i> On 13 February 2012 10:05, Olav Vitters <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">olav at vitters.nl</A>> wrote: +</I>><i> >> - Suggests drakconf in minimal package +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Why as part of task-gnome*, shouldn't it be a require elsewhere? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1) for symmetry with task-kde4-minimal +</I>><i> It should be done in task-{lxde,xfce,..} of course +</I> +Then it should be documented, because currently, task-* is polluted. +Since everybody add his pet peeves packages as task-*, that cause the +same problem that was intended to solve, ie too much choice. People have +the warm fuzzy feeling of having a selected and taylored set of rpm, but +that's far from the truth. + +Also, it abuses suggests and interact in a weird way with auto-orphans +( or it should be better to say that it make it dangerous for users to +use the feature, thanks to the lack of semantics for Suggests, coupled +with lack of clear semantics on task-* and the abuse of the 2nd one by +the first one coupled with a too simple UI ). + +><i> 2) so that people performing minimal install then installing task-foobar +</I>><i> got mcc too +</I>><i> (it's done at installer time through rpmsrate which is not used after +</I>><i> installation by urpmi -- else nothing will pull it[1]) +</I> +So basically, that's duplication of information ? + +><i> 3) because that's the right place to do it +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Note it's a suggests, not a hard requires +</I> +Suggests semantics are still unclear. For now, that's "let me use this +to push totally unrelated packages in the default setup because I think +they should be installed but I have no way to explain why, and they are +important but not important enough to be documented or selected at +runtime". And that's far from being ideal. + +In fact, the more I can think of, the more I wonder what was the problem +we wanted to solve with Suggests, and if we really did. The UI is near 0 +and will be for a long time, since there isn't enough expressiveness in +a rpm tag for that. Advanced users, who are concerned with deps and what +is installed either remove suggests ( my case, because it pull lots of +unneeded stuff ), or just do without it for finding related packages +( because you still need to look on why something is pulled, and you +cannot really select ( not that asking a 100 questions would be good +OTOH )). + +Less advanced users do not care at all about suggests in the best case +( ie, it solved almost nothing for them ), and end with auto-orphans +doing weird stuff. It also have a weird interaction model on upgrade +( like "if task-kde4 is installed, do I want to also pull all suggests, +even those I removed, or do I want to not do it, and then end with a +different result than from a fresh installation" ) + +So I would suggests ( no pun intended ) to just drop them. Keeping them +make us diverge from upstream, afaik, requires various hack with some +side effect and extra documentation for almost nothing ( ie, since we +may not have solved a real problem ), and think to do think another way. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="011913.html">[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2 +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="011912.html">[Mageia-dev] [changelog] [RPM] cauldron core/release task-gnome-3.3.2-4.mga2 +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#11911">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#11911">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#11911">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#11911">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |