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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
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| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-November/009895.html | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
| download | archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.tar archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.tar.gz archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.tar.bz2 archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.tar.xz archives-1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0.zip | |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-November/009895.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-November/009895.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8c48a4cee --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-November/009895.html @@ -0,0 +1,189 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Teamviewer and X86_64 build . . . + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Teamviewer%20and%20X86_64%20build%20.%20.%20.&In-Reply-To=%3C1322487634.14157.99.camel%40localhost%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="009891.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="009913.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Teamviewer and X86_64 build . . .</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Teamviewer%20and%20X86_64%20build%20.%20.%20.&In-Reply-To=%3C1322487634.14157.99.camel%40localhost%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Teamviewer and X86_64 build . . .">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Nov 28 14:40:34 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="009891.html">[Mageia-dev] Teamviewer and X86_64 build . . . +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="009913.html">[Mageia-dev] Teamviewer and X86_64 build . . . +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#9895">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#9895">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#9895">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#9895">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le lundi 28 novembre 2011 à 12:09 +0100, Kamil Rytarowski a écrit : +><i> On 28.11.2011 11:32, Guillaume Rousse wrote: +</I>><i> > Le 28/11/2011 11:28, Kamil Rytarowski a écrit : +</I>><i> >> There were a few requests for TeamViewer in my local Mageia site - I +</I>><i> >> suggest to add it to our repositories (probably as tainted and as a +</I>><i> >> downloading script). +</I> +That's non-free, not tainted. + +><i> > They are better ways to contribute to the distribution than helping +</I>><i> > 'poor little users' to install crappy proprietary software. Such as +</I>><i> > writing documentation about dependency management, for instance. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> I wouldn't like to follow the OpenBSD way... +</I> +Why ? + +They managed to be a highly recognized system, seen as one of the best +in his category, and was able to be developed since 1994. + +><i> There is software like +</I>><i> TrueCrypt, Skype, TeamViewer that many users need. And there is no harm +</I>><i> to add it to repositories. +</I> +I would like to remind that our focus is doing free software. And it is +not "becoming a dumping ground for proprietary software". + +There is several pragmatic reasons for that and, there is also some long +term harm by shipping more and more proprietary software like : +- we cannot support them ( no source code, most of the time, no proper +bug report tools, anything ), with the implied consequence of "we cannot +trust them". + +- it also make the distinction between application we trust and buggy +stuff that we don't ( skype, flash ) harder to see. We can no longer say +to people "you can trust us, everything in our repository is checked and +supported", since this is not the case. So I personally no longer say to +people to trust us because of that. + +- Most if not all proprietary softwares do not permit proper +cooperation, which mean that we cannot plan much around it. So we cannot +place them as proeminent features, unless we want to later risk not +fullfilling our promises ( and I will not talk about how it goes against +cooperation values ). This also place in a uncomfortable position since +we are just treated as 2nd class citizen. + +- such software can have a impact on migration to new softwares, and may +requires us to keep old compatibility version, thus adding more QA and +more complexity ( again, I can think of skype, who took a long time to +support pulseaudio, thus forcing more hack to integrate, or the whole +32b/64bits system who was solely needed just for stuff like flash or +wine ). + +- some softwares like nvidia or flash are notoriously buggy, thus making +our distribution look bad when it crash, make people lose time on it +( <A HREF="http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=819">http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=819</A> ), and requires in depth changes to +accommodate them. + +That's just very pragmatic high level points, explaining why we should +avoid them. Please note that I do not even of ethics or anything, just +real life impacts ( impact that people tend to forget to replace them by +philosophical point since that's easier to dismiss as "non important", +but that's just wrong ). + +On a more precise point of distributing when the developers do not want +us to do ( like flash, etc ), using a download script is just a ugly +hack as said in the past, since : + +- it can break at each change of the website, thus requiring a quick +fix, and sometimes a not so easy one ( what if adobe start to really +protect flash download with a more convoluted approach, like some kind +of JS ? ). So that's fragile and demanding more work. + +- it can be made illegal ( or at least, not authorized by the license +that people never read ). Maybe it is already the case for some +software. Maybe that's not legit to have a contract in electronic form. +While the risk is IMHO rather low, things may changes. I am sure that +Gael Duval didn't think "I could have issues by creating a small +distribution called mandrake". He rightfully thought he would be +protected. Yet, I would rather be cautious to not be too adventurous, +especially for non cooperative software. +As a side note, that would be one reason for me to not propose myself as +president and/or treasurer of the association ( or if I do, . + +- it doesn't work without a working internet connexion. While +flash-plugin and skype are not useful without network access ( so that +point is silly ), some others tools can be, and this would bring more +frustration to people, and more risk of weird errors. I am pretty sure +that people will be puzzled if everything work from their own mirror, +except a few software. + +Personally, I aim for better stuff than fragile unsustainable hacks like +this. And we should not start to settle on lower standards, especially +if forced to us by non cooperative company or group. One could be +tolerable. Two, likely. More, that's starting to generalize, and that's +just sending the wrong signal to the whole community, and saying to +company "it is ok to treat us like parias". It is hard to be credible +when saying "we want to provides a solid system" and in the same time, +do the contrary. + +I doubt we will be able to bring real long term credibility and a +reputation for quality if we go this way. People can just compare Ubuntu +reputation to Debian one, and see which one was able to survive without +spending million of dollars each year. And also which one serve as a +base for the other. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="009891.html">[Mageia-dev] Teamviewer and X86_64 build . . . +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="009913.html">[Mageia-dev] Teamviewer and X86_64 build . . . +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#9895">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#9895">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#9895">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#9895">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |