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<H1>[Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1</H1>
<B>Wolfgang Bornath</B>
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TITLE="[Mageia-dev] ANN: X11 now starts on tty1">molch.b at googlemail.com
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<I>Sun Dec 18 13:26:11 CET 2011</I>
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<PRE>2011/12/18 Colin Guthrie <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia at colin.guthr.ie</A>>:
><i> 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 18/12/11 11:46 did gyre and gimble:
</I>>><i> Op zondag 18 december 2011 11:54:17 schreef Colin Guthrie:
</I>>>><i> 'Twas brillig, and Anssi Hannula at 18/12/11 10:32 did gyre and gimble:
</I>>>>><i> For the record, attached are three alternative [1] untested
</I>>>>><i> proof-of-concept patches that make kernel start on vt7.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> Personally I'm not a fan of sticking to vt7. As I said in an earlier
</I>>>><i> thread, if the primary use case of the machine is graphical, then why
</I>>>><i> start at 7? It's an arbitrary choice that fitted in with other uses when
</I>>>><i> it was first introduced, but these days it's pretty backwards when
</I>>>><i> considered on it's own. The only reason to preserve it is out of habit
</I>>>><i> and I think that this is (generally speaking) the worst possible premise
</I>>>><i> to base decisions on. I mean, if we want to let people use fast user
</I>>>><i> switching easily they first have to learn first about vt switch command
</I>>>><i> ctrl+alt+Fn. Then they have to learn that the first login is on 7 and
</I>>>><i> the subsequent ones are on 8 etc. This doesn't make sense...
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> What *should* happen is that the first one is 1.. the second one is 2 etc.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> When I'm in gnome, and I switch to tty2 for the first time, rather than
</I>>>><i> getty appearing wouldn't it be better if the gdm prompt appeared for a
</I>>>><i> second graphical login?
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> I'm not suggesting that we ditch text logins completely, but I'm just
</I>>>><i> saying that we should try and make things generally smoother if they
</I>>>><i> user has already opted for a graphical system.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> Switching to e.g. 7 or 8 should maybe default to providing a text login
</I>>>><i> and gdm should maybe present a "give me a text login" option in which
</I>>>><i> case that X server quits and getty replaces it.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> Anything unused should timeout and quit (e.g. a getty on tty2 unused
</I>>>><i> should exit and wait and be re-activated as appropriate later.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> All these things are possible (maybe not without upstream support, but I
</I>>>><i> can ask Ray about the general plans here from a gdm perspective).
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> Just for reference this is how the seat extender USB things work. Little
</I>>>><i> thin clients that you plug into USB that give you a keyboard mouse and
</I>>>><i> display. When you plug it in for the first time, it registers a new seat
</I>>>><i> and then gives you a gdm login prompt. I don't think mutli user should
</I>>>><i> be much different from multi-seat in this regard.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>>><i> BTW, I know fedora uses vt1 for X, but what about other distros, e.g.
</I>>>>><i> Ubuntu/Debian?
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> I don't think they default to it but plenty people try to change it to
</I>>>><i> that according to Google.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> Col
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> theoretically, i'd be in favor of on-demand vt allocation, be it graphical or
</I>>><i> textbased.
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> i'd be ok with a session starting when going to other vt (default session, be
</I>>><i> it a dm or a textbased login.)
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Yup, this is generally what I'd propose.
</I>><i>
</I>>><i> however, the dm should allow to fall back to
</I>>><i> textbased, but there we run into a problem:
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> what if X is failing, you can't go back to text-login, so that's a nono
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> perhaps we could document that we'd preallocate F12 or something for text-
</I>>><i> based emergency, but then noone would know...
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Yeah, as above, I was suggesting that e.g. 7&8 were always text logins.
</I>><i>
</I>>><i> I donno, if we don't have textbased by default, then surely vt1 has to be
</I>>><i> forcably text-based...
</I>><i>
</I>>><i> new X sessions are started from the old session, so i vote that CTRL+ALT+FX
</I>>><i> spawns a text-based login.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> They can be, but I'd vote that this should change. e.g. if you have a
</I>><i> setup where you "typically" have two users logged in and session 1 is
</I>><i> always "Dad" and session 2 is always "Mum", if Mum knows that she does
</I>><i> ctl+alt+F2 to switch to her session when she is logged in, however in
</I>><i> order to login, Dad has to already be logged in and either select the
</I>><i> Switch User option, or do so from a logged screen.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> But say there has been a power cut and the machine is rebooted, Dad
</I>><i> hasn't logged in but Mum wants to use "her" session on VT2 because
</I>><i> that's what they are both used to.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> If she presses ctl+alt+f2 when at the login prompt, all she sees is a
</I>><i> text login, this will be confusing to her. However if it spawns a new
</I>><i> graphical login, then she'll appreciate she's not logged in yet and log in.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So stand by my original suggestion that if you are running a graphical
</I>><i> target, Switching to a TTY to get a "login prompt" should show you a
</I>><i> graphical login prompt. If however you are only in the text level
</I>><i> (multi-user.target) then you should be given text logins.
</I>><i>
</I>
What happens in this new scheme if graphical server fails - this is
happening more often than you think - this is not clear to me yet. If
the x server crashes and the default is starting a DM and graphical
login, what will happen then?
What happens if a user wants to boot into run level 3? He will get a
text prompt because neither x nor any DM has started yet - where does
he land, on VT7?
What happens when using SysReq keys?
About displaying a graphical login - when I press Ctrl-Alt-Fn I do
this to go to a text console, not to yet another x screen and I expect
a prompt, not yet another graphical login.
--
wobo
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