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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2011-April/003234.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2011-April/003234.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..07210ebf5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-sysadm/2011-April/003234.html @@ -0,0 +1,190 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-sysadm] ML request for QAteam + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-sysadm%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-sysadm%5D%20ML%20request%20for%20QAteam&In-Reply-To=%3C1301610030.10310.403.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="003238.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-sysadm] ML request for QAteam</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-sysadm%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-sysadm%5D%20ML%20request%20for%20QAteam&In-Reply-To=%3C1301610030.10310.403.camel%40akroma.ephaone.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-sysadm] ML request for QAteam">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Fri Apr 1 00:20:30 CEST 2011</I> + <P><UL> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003238.html">[Mageia-sysadm] ML request for QAteam +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3234">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3234">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3234">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3234">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le jeudi 31 mars 2011 à 21:33 +0200, Romain d'Alverny a écrit : + +><i> > I think we can all agree that the canonical list of member of a team is +</I>><i> > in a ldap group for all teams ( because that's what we did so far for +</I>><i> > web application integration, catdap integration, sympa integration, +</I>><i> > epoll integration, etc ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Yes, but we discussed (several months ago) too to remind that it's not +</I>><i> because one is (or is not) a team member that it would necessarily be +</I>><i> subscribed to the team list; that should not be a bijective +</I>><i> relationship. +</I> +Yup, so we agree that this 2 different things. + +><i> > So if the qa team is the list of people in the ldap group mga-qa, +</I>><i> > it is confusing to refer to a 2nd group ( the list of people who +</I>><i> > subscribed to the ml, and who would be ) as qateam. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> There's the informal team list, where non-peers can subscribe and +</I>><i> participate. That's the mailing-list (communication/collaboration +</I>><i> goals). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And there's the formal team, made of peers only. That's the LDAP group +</I>><i> (credential/recognition goal). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> These are two distinct sets that don't match exactly with each other. +</I> +Yes, again we agree on the fact this is 2 different things. + +><i> >> (yes, it comes out too from years of practice of this naming scheme at +</I>><i> >> Mandriva where, well, these were internal list names/aliases - but +</I>><i> >> here it would be public as team's lists are :-p ). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > On mandriva qateam alias/ml, who was behind ? +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > While I was not here so I am maybe wrong, I suspect the aliases matched +</I>><i> > exactly the internal organisation. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Far from that. Cross-teams information +</I> +That do not really fully answer to the question, ie who was there ? +And how was the teams named in Mandriva ? + + +><i> > Here, I do not know exactly because Damien ask for a public list, and to +</I>><i> > me that mean a list were anybody can subscribe and post, but maybe he +</I>><i> > mean a list that anybody can read ( something like council ). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > So in the hypothesis that the list is not restricted to members of the +</I>><i> > team, the name would be misleading. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> We have already <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-sysadm">mageia-webteam at mageia.org.</A> That's the team discussion +</I>><i> list, and it is open to everyone (lurkers included). Only a little +</I>><i> subset of its subscribers are team peers. And that is perfectly fine. +</I> +This one is more a exception than the norm if I look on +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/</A> +( and well, I think we also agreed to use web@ when migrating to sympa : +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-webteam/2011-January/000124.html">https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-webteam/2011-January/000124.html</A> ). + +In the case of webteam, this is not obvious that the list is a +discussion list when you just take the name, as it sound more like a +alias for the team itself. + +><i> If we were to move the Web team ml to ml.mageia.org (I guess that will +</I>><i> happen some day) it should not strictly tie ml membership to team +</I>><i> membership - these are two different things. +</I> +So we agree that's 2 different things. + +><i> > I would also add that it seems that people on the wiki +</I>><i> > ( <A HREF="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=qateam">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=qateam</A> ) have a different view of +</I>><i> > QA than what is written as a description ( and the purpose is the same +</I>><i> > as others team like debian one <A HREF="http://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/">http://wiki.debian.org/qa.debian.org/</A> +</I>><i> > and ubuntu <A HREF="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/</A> ). +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > And the ratio of people saying "automation tool" vs "test packages" on +</I>><i> > <A HREF="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=qateam">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=qateam</A> is quite clear ( 1 people for +</I>><i> > automation, 53 for "testing" ). +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But that should not prevent the QA team to be further designed and +</I>><i> built for both practices (and still bear the "QA" name, as that's what +</I>><i> it is about). +</I> +I think I was not clear. We agreed that the list and the team are +different. + +The problem is not the qa naming, as it is likely already too late to +change people perception as I explained. But that's not a big issue +because this could be done later with enough education. + +The problem is that the name "qateam" already design something different +because of the team suffix. + +><i> Testers are testers, but maybe not necessarily meant to be QA team +</I>><i> peers that _organize_ and coordonate things - it's not because it does +</I>><i> not stand out yet that a QA team can't be setup at all as such (look +</I>><i> at marketing and communication teams - they are not there yet, but +</I>><i> that doesn't prevent to work for it slowly). +</I> +Well, I agree that the lack of formal team is not a issue, that was not +my point ( nor the one that I wanted to make ) + +But the list of market and comm are not called marketingteam or +communicationteam especially since the team do not exist yet. + +We also said that we would not create 1 list for each team to work in +isolation ( see +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-discuss/20100929/001538.html">https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-discuss/20100929/001538.html</A> ), +as we want to have cross team collaboration. +And so one of the way to say that a list is not to be reserved for a +team is to remove the "team" from the name. + +You didn't comment on my suggestion about distro-test so I suspect that +it is not fine. So let's do a 2nd proposition, what about : + +<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-sysadm">qa-discuss at ml</A> + +It say this is about qa ( qa ) +It is clearly a discussion list, open to everybody ( -discuss ) +It is separate from the idea of team ( which is a separate concept as we +both said ). + +Moreover, qa is IMHO a better prefix for a potential qa-reports@ ( for +automated reports, like sysadmin-reports for puppet/xymon report ), for +qa-private@, or qa-security@, or +qa-updates@ or anything for a private list if needed as reminded by +Damien ( so we can do the vast majority of the work in the open and +still keep sensible issues separate, thus having both benefit ). + +And we could later have qa-announce@, qa-commits@, etc. + +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="003238.html">[Mageia-sysadm] ML request for QAteam +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#3234">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#3234">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#3234">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#3234">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-sysadm">More information about the Mageia-sysadm +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |