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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-i18n/2012-May/002921.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-i18n/2012-May/002921.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..89889a10e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-i18n/2012-May/002921.html @@ -0,0 +1,162 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-i18n] www pages: about and main index + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-i18n%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-i18n%5D%20www%20pages%3A%20about%20and%20main%20index&In-Reply-To=%3CCANa9xwsJHk73YJ4tEH_BU2ZjMiKi9tW87TaVrwZZoWN-iOni6A%40mail.gmail.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002920.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002922.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-i18n] www pages: about and main index</H1> + <B>Romain d'Alverny</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-i18n%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-i18n%5D%20www%20pages%3A%20about%20and%20main%20index&In-Reply-To=%3CCANa9xwsJHk73YJ4tEH_BU2ZjMiKi9tW87TaVrwZZoWN-iOni6A%40mail.gmail.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-i18n] www pages: about and main index">rdalverny at gmail.com + </A><BR> + <I>Fri May 25 23:50:37 CEST 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002920.html">[Mageia-i18n] www pages: about and main index +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002922.html">[Mageia-i18n] about.cs.lang - update +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2921">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2921">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2921">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2921">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 11:02 PM, Yuri Chornoivan <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-i18n">yurchor at ukr.net</A>> wrote: +><i> I am not telling about server side at all. Why not extract all the strings +</I>><i> form these .lang files into reliable format. It should be deadly easy with +</I>><i> the current format (drop two lines and extract every line with ";" at the +</I>><i> beginning. It can be done even via PHP. Then generate .lang for locales +</I>><i> using cron with minimal task priority. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> No mistakes in quotation, no formatting breaks, no extra manual job, no +</I>><i> additional load on server for every single translation update, no additional +</I>><i> pages with lists, no wiki explanations, just tell the translators the name +</I>><i> of the directory in SVN and the single pot file (generated by cron). +</I> +Better go with gettext all the way down and reimplement gettext in PHP +then. Right. + +But keep in mind too that all candidates to translating the web site +may have no experience at all, or no experience with .po files either +or even SVN. So, having explanations, documentation and some web +reports is not necessarily luxury. + +><i> But with all respect, Mozilla (currently) has some language teams with +</I>><i> number of members that exceeds the number of all Mageia translators. They +</I>><i> can waste their resources, at least in the current state. +</I> +Look. I did this in about 2 days to ease your process, from a stage +where things were obviously not good. I took the short, quick road to +make something quick, affordable and that you can build upon and we +can have a better translated website. And to have something easier to +migrate, later, to something like, or actually gettext. + +><i> That's what I see now: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> украї́нська мо́ва (wrong, by the way. It should be "Українська". I wrote +</I>><i> Oliver about this, but nobody cares :'( ): +</I> +There may be other reasons than carelessness. Fixed. + +For all the other remarks, you're right. That was quickly assembled in +a few minutes. I welcome that you expect more and better than that. + +><i> Very sad. It's not a big problem to translate even whole KDE or GNOME with +</I>><i> their docs and wikis (believe me, at least about KDE ;) ). It's a problem to +</I>><i> keep them translated. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The Rosetta situation with whole string discarding for one comma or one +</I>><i> space is somewhat unacceptable without any chance to have at least +</I>><i> minimalistic translation memory. +</I> +The current (and previsible) state of the Web site is that string are +rarely, if ever, rewritten/fixed: it's written once, and freezed for +ever, or thrown away. Call that a waste if you like. It's a +possibility to start things over as well. + +><i> There are no big issues now. But it will end up bad for the following +</I>><i> reasons: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> 1. Copy-pasting from report page can break (and will break) the sequence of +</I>><i> messages making a total mess of outdated/new/existing translations. +</I> +The sequence of message is of no importance. A file is just a dictionary. + +><i> 2. No translation memory, hence no uniform translations and no saving of +</I>><i> time if something has been already translated earlier. +</I> +Granted. But won't have a single .po file per locale for the whole +website anyway, but several of those. Even if compressed, there's no +reason to load a huge dictionary in memory for a single page that +would use only 10/20 strings at most (yes, gettext is expected to +cache those in memory; but gettext has issues in multithreaded +environment - that may have been fixed and I may have unjustified +fears, but I have no support developer for helping me here with this +either). + +><i> 3. Fragmentation with minimal scaling. What is the future? Directory with +</I>><i> dozens of files from different releases (2.uk.lang, 2-1.uk.lang, 3.uk.lang, +</I>><i> 3beta.uk.lang, etc.)? Dozen of directories for different releases? Table +</I>><i> with 70 language columns and dozens of rows? +</I> +Mageia 2 is one release. You get a single file for this release: +2.ll.lang (plus a full update of the index.ll.lang). It happens that +I'm moving things around now, so there are many other files pending. + +><i> 1. If as a result of lacking manpower nothing can be done with the +</I>><i> above-mentioned issues, can we have RSS/Atom feed (automatic) for the report +</I>><i> page to automate the process of updating or automatic messaging to this list +</I>><i> (with no manual sending warnings needed) in the case when English strings +</I>><i> are changed/added? +</I> +That's on my roadmap, but I'm still not sure how to put this to work. +Will come when I have time. + +><i> 2. If it is not hard to do, can the .lang files be regenerated automatically +</I>><i> (with keeping the order of current English pivot)? Identifying of +</I>><i> untranslated strings can be harder, but at least it will keep the logical +</I>><i> order of the messages. +</I> +This can be done too; it won't change the identification of +untranslated strings (that's unrelated, unless you consider the web +report draft script as useless - again good to explain what a better +report would look like). +</PRE> + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002920.html">[Mageia-i18n] www pages: about and main index +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002922.html">[Mageia-i18n] about.cs.lang - update +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2921">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2921">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2921">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2921">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-i18n">More information about the Mageia-i18n +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |