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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101028/002713.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101028/002713.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1ca95bac9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101028/002713.html @@ -0,0 +1,176 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC8CE55.3060502%40laposte.net%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002717.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002714.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>andre999</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3C4CC8CE55.3060502%40laposte.net%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">andr55 at laposte.net + </A><BR> + <I>Thu Oct 28 03:13:57 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002717.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002714.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2713">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2713">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2713">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2713">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Frank Griffin a écrit : +><i> Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> To the defense of the drakx developpers, I do not think that choosing in +</I>>><i> the installer is really a so good idea : +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> - during installation, you do not have web access. Thus, you will have a +</I>>><i> hardtime to really find information on what does a software. If you use +</I>>><i> rpmdrake, you can ask to friend, ask on forum, ask on a search engine. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> This is really a more general issue of the availability of detailed help +</I>><i> during the install. +</I>One of the strengths of Ubuntu. (Of course having paid documenters helps.) + +><i> To focus on package descriptions, which really +</I>><i> *are* of interest only to more advanced users (very few newbies know +</I>><i> enough about Linux to care about minimalist installs), completely misses +</I>><i> the point that there is a lot of other information about what's going on +</I>><i> in the install that *would* be of interest to newbies. +</I>><i> +</I>It depends what you put in the package descriptions. Something like +"You really should install this" is totally meaningless to almost everyone. +A good description is not necessarily highly technical. It is really +the application packages that a newbie would want to select, +dependancies will be automatically selected, as in now the case. If a +summary description is clear, that could be sufficient. +But I tend to think that a full description should be used for +application packages. + +><i> The issue, as always, is competition for space or bandwidth between help +</I>><i> and program content. If you access it through the network, people +</I>><i> without network access won't get it. If you put it on the media, it +</I>><i> redices the space available for programs. +</I>><i> +</I>Why not have "one" ISOs on "small" DVDs ? +Say 1G, 1,5G instead of 4,7G +We don't have to insist on CDs. +Maybe call them "one plus" ISOs ? + +><i> This is why I think that such help, package descriptions, etc., should +</I>><i> be separate from the rpms. In the past (and maybe still, as I haven't +</I>><i> done a from-media install for a while), the install asked the user if he +</I>><i> had additional media to use. +</I>Addition media is still asked. + +><i> A slight expansion of this could ask how +</I>><i> many CDs/DVDs the user has available and whether the network will be +</I>><i> available (or should be activated) in order to access additional +</I>><i> packages and help content. +</I>><i> +</I>Network is always asked. +Unless the user has a fast connexion, help over the network would be a pain. +Even on a medium-speed connexion, 10x as fast as dialup. +Much better to download a DVD (or CDs). Then the actual installation +process will be much faster. +Of course downloading the occasional file would not be problematic. + +><i> For the install media, we should go back to the arrangement we had in +</I>><i> the multi-CD days. Cooker required something like 9 CDs for everything, +</I>><i> but the essentials were placed on the first CD, and content was arranged +</I>><i> on the others by type. The "standard " install used 2 or 3 CDs, and the +</I>><i> install basically tailored itself to the number of CDs available. +</I>><i> +</I>Multiple CDs has been replaced by DVDs. Much faster for the same amount +of data. +No swapping. And much more reliable. +A DVD is 7.2 650M CDs, or 6.7 700M CDs. +Of course the user would have to have a DVD writer to create one. +But most computers would be able to read one. +It might be a good idea to ship DVDs for a nominal fee. +We could even try to arrange shipping locally, for minimal costs. + +><i> In the same spirit, we could have a set of package-related ISOs, and one +</I>><i> or more documentation ISOs. If a non-network user wants extended help +</I>><i> and package descriptions in translated format, he obtains these ISOs. +</I>><i> If not, he doesn't. At the start of the install, the user gets a prompt +</I>><i> with checkboxes for each of the possible ISOs, and can indicate which +</I>><i> are available. For any that aren't, the install doesn't even try to use +</I>><i> what's on them. If the install detects enough available unused disk +</I>><i> space, then the first use of any ISO can copy some or all of the ISO to +</I>><i> hard disk for the duration of the install. Any prompt for an ISO has a +</I>><i> way for the user to say he really doesn't have that one, in which case +</I>><i> it is not prompted for again. All this should minimize the amount of +</I>><i> disk-swapping. +</I>><i> +</I>Lots of disks, but minimal disk-swapping ? +Why not a single DVD, and no disk-swapping ? +><i> That answers the objections of those who don't want to have to download +</I>><i> many ISOs to do an install, and also addresses the needs of non-network +</I>><i> users (e.g. small schools) who want a full-featured set of install media +</I>><i> that can be reused repeatedly for friendly installs without network +</I>><i> access. It also minimizes disk-swapping, unless the system is really +</I>><i> tight on space, in which case the install is at least still possible, +</I>><i> albeit with some disk swapping (assuming the user wants to use multiple +</I>><i> ISOs). +</I>><i> +</I>Note that schools would generally have the bandwidth to download a DVD. +So little or no need for disk swapping. + +The problem with all this is it makes things more complicated. For +Mageia. For new users. But maybe not so much for experienced users +with a large bandwidth. But are these the users we are addressing ? + +><i> As always, network users could opt to download dynamically anything they +</I>><i> didn't have ISO media for, with the same provision for caching, if space +</I>><i> allowed. +</I>><i> +</I> +Localising the package descriptions shouldn't take a lot of space, +compared with localising the software included. +I really don't understand the real advantage of separating the package +description from the package. To save 1% of ISO space ? At what price +complexity ? + +my 2 cents :) + +- André +</PRE> + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002717.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002714.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2713">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2713">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2713">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2713">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |