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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002593.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002593.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3faf318bb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101024/002593.html @@ -0,0 +1,172 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Suggestions + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010232028520.9956%40astro.scholar.athome%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002600.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002601.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions</H1> + <B>Dale Huckeby</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Suggestions&In-Reply-To=%3Calpine.LMD.2.00.1010232028520.9956%40astro.scholar.athome%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions">spock at evansville.net + </A><BR> + <I>Sun Oct 24 05:13:13 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2593">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2593">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2593">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2593">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>><i> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010, Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>>><i> that Tux99 wrote: +</I>>>><i> that Michael Scherer wrote: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> . . . . +</I>><i> +</I>>>><i> Well, writing better description is a task that do not requires +</I>>>><i> technical knowledge, and that any packagers could do, if people send a +</I>>>><i> patch. +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> Come on... the effort of adding a decent description is minimal for a +</I>>><i> packager, the effort for a normal user of making a patch is much +</I>>><i> higher, this is not a very friendly answer towards the users... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I think I demonstrated in the past that constant friendliness toward +</I>><i> users is not one of my distinctive characteristics. +</I> +<Grin> I appreciate your candor. + +><i> The patch arguent is invalid, because people can also send mail, like +</I>><i> "here is a better description of package $FOO because I didn't +</I>><i> understood the current one and I wanted to help". +</I> +But you didn't say that. You said "send a patch" which is not so user +friendly. Oh that's right, you already addressed that. But yeah, if +I could just send the desired text via email that would be easy, and +for that matter learning to create and send patches would be pretty +easy to learn, too. Just never had reason to before. + +>>><i> Since I never received anything for my own packages for this kind of +</I>>>><i> problem, shall I assume that my packages are fine ? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I don't know which ones are your packages, this wasn't meant personally +</I>>><i> towards you or anyone specific, I don't think including a decent package +</I>>><i> description in all Mageia packages (each packager for their own +</I>>><i> packages) is such a bad or hard thing to ask for. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If this is not a hard task, my question still stand, why does no one, be +</I>><i> it packagers and non packagers do it ? +</I> +You give the reason packagers don't do it below. As for the reason non- +packagers don't do it, it probably doesn't occur to them, they don't +know where to start, who to talk to, etc. + +><i> We could rely on the packagers for everything, but 1) that doesn't scale +</I>><i> 2) that doesn't work. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That doesn't scale because packagers time is a finite ressource. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And that doesn't work because packagers ( at least me ) most of the time +</I>><i> do not read descriptions, so they do not see something is wrong. +</I>><i> Managing and knowing softwares is our duty, which place use in a +</I>><i> position far away from someone that discover the system. Kde had 3 +</I>><i> majors releases since I started to use Linux, so of course the packages +</I>><i> descriptions change, yet I didn't read them since years. And the same +</I>><i> could be said of most packagers. +</I> +That's a common effect of expertise. The expert knows too much to easily +put himself in the shoes of those who know very little. When we went +from index cards to computers at a university bookstore where I used to +work the department manager, after a few weeks, asked each of us to +write step by step instructions beginners could use to accomplish various +tasks, and it was striking how much we inadvertently left out. We'd say, +"go to such and such a file", forgetting that only a few weeks earlier +none of us knew how to "go to" a file. It must be that much harder for +programmers to put themselves in the shoes of ordinary users and realize +how much they don't know that needs to be spelled out (in what must be, +for the expert, excruciating detail). I've helped people users who were +unable to make sense of expert instruction because it assumed too much +and explained too little, so there's definitely a need for nontechnical +or semitechnical contributors. + +><i> And I think that most of use naively think "if something is wrong, at +</I>><i> least 1 person will say it". yet, it doesn't happen. +</I> +Yes, you are being naive. Other packagers aren't going to say anything +because it's not their package and because, like you, they don't really +notice the missing descriptions. And ordinary users aren't part of that +world, so it doesn't occur to them to say anything, or to contribute +in any way, because it would seem presumptuous. I think Mageia should +make a special effort to recruit, to make to feel comfortable, users +who might want to contribute but don't know how, who feel kind of lost +at sea when it comes to knowing where to begin. + +><i> So if we want to scale and make it work, then we need to find how to +</I>><i> make people who are directly concerned contribute. And so, the best way +</I>><i> to find why something didn't happen is to simply ask to people who are +</I>><i> directly concerned. +</I> +Exactly. There needs to be some way new users can be informed, either in +the install process itself or via, say, an icon on the desktop which, +when clicked, explains briefly what Mageia is, how users can contribute, +where they can go to get more information, etc. + +><i> So again, why does people do not send improved description ? Because +</I>><i> they fear we will nuke them from orbit ? Because our email are so +</I>><i> obfuscated that no one can find them ? +</I> +No, but they do need handholding and encouragement, because while this +environment (programmers working together to create a distro) is in a +sense "home" to you for them it's foreign soil. + +Dale Huckeby + +p.s. You're not really going to nuke me from orbit, are you? :) + + +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002600.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002601.html">[Mageia-discuss] Suggestions +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2593">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2593">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2593">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2593">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |