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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/0692a918/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/0692a918/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1a4a136d9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/0692a918/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,28 @@ +<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im"> +<br> +</div>Since the vast majority of new processors are 64-bit capable, I see no<br> +point in *only* supporting the newest of the old CPUs. All the 32-bit<br> +stuff will eventually die on its own anyways.<br> +<br> +I *definitely* do not want to see dropping support for everything that<br> +doesn't do SSE2 (which was discussed in the Fedora thread you linked).<br></blockquote><div><br>PII is not SSE2 capable. I cited SSE2, because it was giving even more boosts. SSE3, 4, etc. needs special support to gain further boosts.<br> + <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +IMHO, just sticking with i586 support is the path-of-least-resistance<br> +and doesn't alienate people who must use older hardware out of<br> +financial or geographic necessity.<br> +<br> +I would not use KDE as a basis for ruling out support of older<br> +hardware. Mageia will offer many lightweight alternatives to KDE.<br></blockquote><div><br>Any system REALLY lightweight is welcome, but it's not a matter of just choosing a desktop rather than another. There are also toolkits, and they are getting fatter. Maybe a legacy system with just motif (or lesstif) applications would be lightweight nowadays. But IMHO this is just an illusion and get people "angry". I really want to see such a lightweight system even for ATOM CPUs.<br> +<br>I spent days and days in try to understand why passing from a distro to two versions later, my shining not-so-new P4 hardware with ATI card become from lightning to usable to a slow-dog that it was not able to keep at the same time a browser and a mail client without slaughtering the hard disk with swap. And the answer was that there wasn't any bottenleck in the distro (beyond playing with Composite, XAA and EXA...).<br> +Simply the upstream applications become fatter because they added more checks, etc.; you might experience this even not using graphics at all but remaining in console mode only.<br>And phoronix benchmarks shown this. Only difference is that when you test <span class="clickable"><span class="sg"><span class="se1"><span class="trn">adjacent releases the differences are tighter, so you wouldn't notice too much.</span></span></span></span> For instance the whole distro of Xandros running on the first EEEPCs, was able to boot and go X in 10-15 seconds. But when starting OpenOffice/Staroffice there, or acrobat reader, was not faster than the same time they were taking on MDV.<br> +<br>Even newer versions of what was considered the most optimized and lightweight distro, VectorLinux, become slower. Or try to put in a CDROM an older Knoppix 3.2 of 2005 against Knoppix 6.2 on the same hardware...<br><br> +Of course we shouldn't forget that the MDV had already a system for providing optimized (look at /usr/lib/sse2 for instance) version of libraries according to instruction set supported.<br><br>So my suggestion was just to rethink to the lowest common denominator for 32 bit consider that we are in year 2010, maybe adding to such list the SSE and MMX sets. And by contrary are the CPU not supporting such set still usable with the newer distro even in console mode (fileserver, webserver, dns server, etc.)? Have they enough memory to run even the installer? Just a survey.<br> +<br>Note that I'm always in favour in preserving the legacy stuff, especially for software applications, but when things are done in a certain way, even if there is only one SINGLE user using it (he would have invested time in learning things, so why removing things he knows and use?).<br> +<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +Because the kernel is modular, excluding older drivers may save some<br> +hard disk space, but won't affect the actual kernel size much. As<br> +soon as you exclude support for ISA, someone will come along wondering<br> +why their $VeryImportantOlderHW no longer works. ;o)<br></blockquote><div><br>when it works...I saw in the past many of my most important old hardware, like some PCMCIA network card or modem not working or supported anymore... ;-)<br> + </div>Bye<br>Giuseppe.<br><br></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/0692a918/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/0692a918/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1a4a136d9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/0692a918/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,28 @@ +<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im"> +<br> +</div>Since the vast majority of new processors are 64-bit capable, I see no<br> +point in *only* supporting the newest of the old CPUs. All the 32-bit<br> +stuff will eventually die on its own anyways.<br> +<br> +I *definitely* do not want to see dropping support for everything that<br> +doesn't do SSE2 (which was discussed in the Fedora thread you linked).<br></blockquote><div><br>PII is not SSE2 capable. I cited SSE2, because it was giving even more boosts. SSE3, 4, etc. needs special support to gain further boosts.<br> + <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +IMHO, just sticking with i586 support is the path-of-least-resistance<br> +and doesn't alienate people who must use older hardware out of<br> +financial or geographic necessity.<br> +<br> +I would not use KDE as a basis for ruling out support of older<br> +hardware. Mageia will offer many lightweight alternatives to KDE.<br></blockquote><div><br>Any system REALLY lightweight is welcome, but it's not a matter of just choosing a desktop rather than another. There are also toolkits, and they are getting fatter. Maybe a legacy system with just motif (or lesstif) applications would be lightweight nowadays. But IMHO this is just an illusion and get people "angry". I really want to see such a lightweight system even for ATOM CPUs.<br> +<br>I spent days and days in try to understand why passing from a distro to two versions later, my shining not-so-new P4 hardware with ATI card become from lightning to usable to a slow-dog that it was not able to keep at the same time a browser and a mail client without slaughtering the hard disk with swap. And the answer was that there wasn't any bottenleck in the distro (beyond playing with Composite, XAA and EXA...).<br> +Simply the upstream applications become fatter because they added more checks, etc.; you might experience this even not using graphics at all but remaining in console mode only.<br>And phoronix benchmarks shown this. Only difference is that when you test <span class="clickable"><span class="sg"><span class="se1"><span class="trn">adjacent releases the differences are tighter, so you wouldn't notice too much.</span></span></span></span> For instance the whole distro of Xandros running on the first EEEPCs, was able to boot and go X in 10-15 seconds. But when starting OpenOffice/Staroffice there, or acrobat reader, was not faster than the same time they were taking on MDV.<br> +<br>Even newer versions of what was considered the most optimized and lightweight distro, VectorLinux, become slower. Or try to put in a CDROM an older Knoppix 3.2 of 2005 against Knoppix 6.2 on the same hardware...<br><br> +Of course we shouldn't forget that the MDV had already a system for providing optimized (look at /usr/lib/sse2 for instance) version of libraries according to instruction set supported.<br><br>So my suggestion was just to rethink to the lowest common denominator for 32 bit consider that we are in year 2010, maybe adding to such list the SSE and MMX sets. And by contrary are the CPU not supporting such set still usable with the newer distro even in console mode (fileserver, webserver, dns server, etc.)? Have they enough memory to run even the installer? Just a survey.<br> +<br>Note that I'm always in favour in preserving the legacy stuff, especially for software applications, but when things are done in a certain way, even if there is only one SINGLE user using it (he would have invested time in learning things, so why removing things he knows and use?).<br> +<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +Because the kernel is modular, excluding older drivers may save some<br> +hard disk space, but won't affect the actual kernel size much. As<br> +soon as you exclude support for ISA, someone will come along wondering<br> +why their $VeryImportantOlderHW no longer works. ;o)<br></blockquote><div><br>when it works...I saw in the past many of my most important old hardware, like some PCMCIA network card or modem not working or supported anymore... ;-)<br> + </div>Bye<br>Giuseppe.<br><br></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/4738b434/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/4738b434/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9e7999d20 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/4738b434/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,46 @@ +<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/9/25 Filipe Rosset <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rosset.filipe@gmail.com">rosset.filipe@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<div class="im">On 09/25/2010 09:16 AM, R James wrote:<br> +<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Patrice BRUNELLE<br> +<<a href="mailto:patrice.brunelle@free.fr" target="_blank">patrice.brunelle@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br> +<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +Le vendredi 24 septembre 2010 à 15:51 -0500, R James a écrit :<br> +<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +Technically, the i686 started with the Pentium Pro. (Remember that? :o)<br> +<br> +<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_%28microarchitecture%29" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_(microarchitecture)</a><br> +</blockquote> +<br> +Yes I remember that. And ?<br> +<br> +</blockquote> +Its just a precision to the subject title. i686 began with the<br> +Pentium Pro, not Pentium II.<br> +<br> +I'm not sure what performance benefits can be gained from compiling<br> +for i686 vs i586. Probably not much except for multimedia<br> +applications which most of those can auto-detect the CPU's<br> +capabilities anyways.<br> +<br> +</blockquote> +<br></div> +Just for reference, the Fedora Project was changed from i586 to i686:<br> +<br> +<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Mass_Rebuild#Driving_Features" target="_blank">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Mass_Rebuild#Driving_Features</a><br> +<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support" target="_blank">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support</a><br> +<a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-devel-list@redhat.com/msg02583.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-devel-list@redhat.com/msg02583.html</a><br> +<a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-devel-list@redhat.com/msg02889.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-devel-list@redhat.com/msg02889.html</a> (with 'benchmarks')<br> +<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue162#Fedora_11_Will_Support_i586_Instruction_Set" target="_blank">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue162#Fedora_11_Will_Support_i586_Instruction_Set</a><div class="im"><br> + +<br> +<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +There are still people running AMD K6's (ie: me) which is also i586.<br> +If we compile for i686 and newer, they won't even be able to boot the<br> +installer.<br> +<br> +Therefore, I agree with the decision to keep i586 support.<br> +</blockquote> +<br></div> +I agree too.<br><br></blockquote><div><br>IMHO the problem is not finding an architecture to fit the i586 or i686 rpm flags, rather to find the minimum CPU and memory requirement worthwhile for a decent usage. With KDE if we look at the Mandriva 2010.1, it's barely usable on a P4-3000 with 1-2GB RAM, or a AMD Barton 2500. Barely means that windows and applications are pretty slow to open, switching is slow, etc.; since netbook are so popular we can consider the minimum requirements as those of a typical 2010 netbook, which has ATOM 1.6Ghz processor and 1GB memory. In other words we can consider as default the presence of the SSE instruction set. ATOM has even the SSE2, which would be even better, but that would left out some AMD CPU (some older AMD, like 1.2Ghz has only the 3DNow and not SSE). I would drop compiling for old ISA drivers in kernel (think to some old ISA 3com card, like 3C505, etc.).<br> +<br>G.<br></div></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/4738b434/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/4738b434/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9e7999d20 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/4738b434/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,46 @@ +<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/9/25 Filipe Rosset <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rosset.filipe@gmail.com">rosset.filipe@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<div class="im">On 09/25/2010 09:16 AM, R James wrote:<br> +<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Patrice BRUNELLE<br> +<<a href="mailto:patrice.brunelle@free.fr" target="_blank">patrice.brunelle@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br> +<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +Le vendredi 24 septembre 2010 à 15:51 -0500, R James a écrit :<br> +<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +Technically, the i686 started with the Pentium Pro. (Remember that? :o)<br> +<br> +<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_%28microarchitecture%29" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_(microarchitecture)</a><br> +</blockquote> +<br> +Yes I remember that. And ?<br> +<br> +</blockquote> +Its just a precision to the subject title. i686 began with the<br> +Pentium Pro, not Pentium II.<br> +<br> +I'm not sure what performance benefits can be gained from compiling<br> +for i686 vs i586. Probably not much except for multimedia<br> +applications which most of those can auto-detect the CPU's<br> +capabilities anyways.<br> +<br> +</blockquote> +<br></div> +Just for reference, the Fedora Project was changed from i586 to i686:<br> +<br> +<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Mass_Rebuild#Driving_Features" target="_blank">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Mass_Rebuild#Driving_Features</a><br> +<a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support" target="_blank">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support</a><br> +<a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-devel-list@redhat.com/msg02583.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-devel-list@redhat.com/msg02583.html</a><br> +<a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-devel-list@redhat.com/msg02889.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-devel-list@redhat.com/msg02889.html</a> (with 'benchmarks')<br> +<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue162#Fedora_11_Will_Support_i586_Instruction_Set" target="_blank">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue162#Fedora_11_Will_Support_i586_Instruction_Set</a><div class="im"><br> + +<br> +<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +There are still people running AMD K6's (ie: me) which is also i586.<br> +If we compile for i686 and newer, they won't even be able to boot the<br> +installer.<br> +<br> +Therefore, I agree with the decision to keep i586 support.<br> +</blockquote> +<br></div> +I agree too.<br><br></blockquote><div><br>IMHO the problem is not finding an architecture to fit the i586 or i686 rpm flags, rather to find the minimum CPU and memory requirement worthwhile for a decent usage. With KDE if we look at the Mandriva 2010.1, it's barely usable on a P4-3000 with 1-2GB RAM, or a AMD Barton 2500. Barely means that windows and applications are pretty slow to open, switching is slow, etc.; since netbook are so popular we can consider the minimum requirements as those of a typical 2010 netbook, which has ATOM 1.6Ghz processor and 1GB memory. In other words we can consider as default the presence of the SSE instruction set. ATOM has even the SSE2, which would be even better, but that would left out some AMD CPU (some older AMD, like 1.2Ghz has only the 3DNow and not SSE). I would drop compiling for old ISA drivers in kernel (think to some old ISA 3com card, like 3C505, etc.).<br> +<br>G.<br></div></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/6c53e49f/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/6c53e49f/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3599925e2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/6c53e49f/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,12 @@ +2010/9/25 Tux99 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tux99-mga@uridium.org">tux99-mga@uridium.org</a>></span><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +Again, you are missing the point, these machines are not desktop PCs<br> +running a GUI, any modern Linux distro still runs perfectly fine with<br> +64-128MB and 10-15 year old cpus when used for many headless purposes.<br></blockquote><div><br>For instance? Apart DSL which distro can you start the installer with 64MB memory only (use 1GB swap?)? Were you able to install the 2010.1?<br> + </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +There is no reason to artificially block Mageia from running on these<br> +machines (and their are far more common than you think).<br></blockquote><div><br>Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be <span class="clickable"><span class="sg"><span class="se1"><span class="trn">dismantled carefully.</span></span></span></span><br> +<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +When planning a distro you need to think inclusion, not exclusion.<br> +<div><div></div><br></div></blockquote><div> <br>I'm not speaking about exclusion but about including or optimizing for arch and hardware that NOBODY will use anymore, because can't.<br><br></div></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/6c53e49f/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/6c53e49f/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3599925e2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/6c53e49f/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,12 @@ +2010/9/25 Tux99 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tux99-mga@uridium.org">tux99-mga@uridium.org</a>></span><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +Again, you are missing the point, these machines are not desktop PCs<br> +running a GUI, any modern Linux distro still runs perfectly fine with<br> +64-128MB and 10-15 year old cpus when used for many headless purposes.<br></blockquote><div><br>For instance? Apart DSL which distro can you start the installer with 64MB memory only (use 1GB swap?)? Were you able to install the 2010.1?<br> + </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +There is no reason to artificially block Mageia from running on these<br> +machines (and their are far more common than you think).<br></blockquote><div><br>Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be <span class="clickable"><span class="sg"><span class="se1"><span class="trn">dismantled carefully.</span></span></span></span><br> +<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +When planning a distro you need to think inclusion, not exclusion.<br> +<div><div></div><br></div></blockquote><div> <br>I'm not speaking about exclusion but about including or optimizing for arch and hardware that NOBODY will use anymore, because can't.<br><br></div></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/7753fdb9/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/7753fdb9/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ac81dee03 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/7753fdb9/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,42 @@ +2010/9/25 Tux99 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tux99-mga@uridium.org">tux99-mga@uridium.org</a>></span><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<div class="im">On Sat, 25 Sep 2010, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote:<br> +<br> +> IMHO the problem is not finding an architecture to fit the i586 or i686 rpm<br> +> flags, rather to find the minimum CPU and memory requirement worthwhile for<br> +> a decent usage. With KDE if we look at the Mandriva 2010.1, it's barely<br> +> usable on a P4-3000 with 1-2GB RAM, or a AMD Barton 2500. Barely means that<br> +> windows and applications are pretty slow to open, switching is slow, etc.;<br> +> since netbook are so popular we can consider the minimum requirements as<br> +> those of a typical 2010 netbook, which has ATOM 1.6Ghz processor and 1GB<br> +> memory. In other words we can consider as default the presence of the SSE<br> +> instruction set. ATOM has even the SSE2, which would be even better, but<br> +> that would left out some AMD CPU (some older AMD, like 1.2Ghz has only the<br> +> 3DNow and not SSE). I would drop compiling for old ISA drivers in kernel<br> +> (think to some old ISA 3com card, like 3C505, etc.).<br> +><br> +<br> +</div>You are not seeing the bigger picture. Mageia is not just for desktop or<br> +netbook users or modern powerful servers, there are people using<br> +embedded systems that often still have i586 compatible cpus, ISA cards<br> +are still very common in industrial uses, etc.<br> +<br> +Personally I have a VIA C3 based system that I use as home server, and<br> +the C3 is only i586 compatible, not i686.<br></blockquote><div><br>Frankly IMHO such hardware is pretty unusable on a modern distro. I think maintaining the compatibility for older legacy hardware is a duty for OpenBSD. I tried such (i.e. Mandriva) on older hardware, and it's really really slow, even without the graphical stuff. This is for instance a Dual PII-450 with SCSI 10000RPM disks and 1GB RAM. At the time such hardware was new it was the fastest machine you could assemble, and the distro you could run was a lightning. Like if today you would assemble a Dual six-core i7 985X with 64GB of memory and 6TB RAID disks. And PII don't have the SSE2.<br> + Every time you upgrade the distro, performance drop to half (it's not a matter of optimization, it's because the X11 become bigger, the kernel fatter because more and more stuff added, more and more checks, the applications bigger, the toolkits slower, the number of libraries higher, ...).<br> + <br>And furthermore the more older system you have the fewer memory you have available. And you can't add more memory because the chipset doesn't support more. In these days also counts the consume of energy, so the tendency is also to replace old hardware which consumes too much power compared to newer hardware and virtualize the old application|system. Unless of course you wanna experiment some solar panels... ;-)<br> +<br>Often even doing the installation from scratch won't work anymore, because the higher memory requirements. So I really want to know a REAL survey of still old (oldest) hardware running and USING the latest distro (latest means LATEST, not 1 or 2 years ago distro). I myself have seen even in production (of course not on the internet so you don't need patches) systems with MDK 7.2 with 128MB RAM and K6, but they wouldn't dare to upgrade it to the latest.<br> +<br>That's why I said to drop things that nowadays NOBODY uses anymore. Then if someone has such hardware, it wouldn't be a problem of adding a kernel module to the kernel list for a certain card that still is used. Of course you can argue, that certainly a newer system would have the 64bit instruction set support (which has even the SSE2 as lowest common denominator), so a user there would certainly install the 64bit system and not the 32 one. Then I say this is right.<br> +<br>Regarding VIA C3, I wonder exactly which model you have, how much memory, and which distro you are running on it. As at least 4-5 years old C3 core Nehemiah models have support for SSE, SSE2, and even crypto hardware optimization (that even Intel or AMD doesn't have).<br> +I'm not saying such hardware is not common, but I wonder whether they would install Mageia on it. It even exists slower hardware based on ARM architecture, but there isn't any ARM port of the distro. Or is planned one?<br> + </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +Also dropping kernel modules for old hardware does not bring any<br> +advantage (they are modules anyway so they don't get loaded on systems<br> +where they aren't needed), only disadvantages to those people who need<br> +them.<br></blockquote><div><br>Only advantage is that you get kernel package thinner and building time shorter :-)<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> + +<br> +So please let's try to be as comprehensive as possible, not exclude<br> +potential users by creating needless limits and restrictions.<br> +<div><div></div><br></div></blockquote><div><br>It's not a matter of excluding potential users, rather providing the real requirements, not "it SHOULD work because we compiled with -march=i586...).<br><br>Bye<br> +Giuseppe.<br><br></div></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/7753fdb9/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/7753fdb9/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ac81dee03 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/7753fdb9/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,42 @@ +2010/9/25 Tux99 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tux99-mga@uridium.org">tux99-mga@uridium.org</a>></span><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<div class="im">On Sat, 25 Sep 2010, Giuseppe Ghibò wrote:<br> +<br> +> IMHO the problem is not finding an architecture to fit the i586 or i686 rpm<br> +> flags, rather to find the minimum CPU and memory requirement worthwhile for<br> +> a decent usage. With KDE if we look at the Mandriva 2010.1, it's barely<br> +> usable on a P4-3000 with 1-2GB RAM, or a AMD Barton 2500. Barely means that<br> +> windows and applications are pretty slow to open, switching is slow, etc.;<br> +> since netbook are so popular we can consider the minimum requirements as<br> +> those of a typical 2010 netbook, which has ATOM 1.6Ghz processor and 1GB<br> +> memory. In other words we can consider as default the presence of the SSE<br> +> instruction set. ATOM has even the SSE2, which would be even better, but<br> +> that would left out some AMD CPU (some older AMD, like 1.2Ghz has only the<br> +> 3DNow and not SSE). I would drop compiling for old ISA drivers in kernel<br> +> (think to some old ISA 3com card, like 3C505, etc.).<br> +><br> +<br> +</div>You are not seeing the bigger picture. Mageia is not just for desktop or<br> +netbook users or modern powerful servers, there are people using<br> +embedded systems that often still have i586 compatible cpus, ISA cards<br> +are still very common in industrial uses, etc.<br> +<br> +Personally I have a VIA C3 based system that I use as home server, and<br> +the C3 is only i586 compatible, not i686.<br></blockquote><div><br>Frankly IMHO such hardware is pretty unusable on a modern distro. I think maintaining the compatibility for older legacy hardware is a duty for OpenBSD. I tried such (i.e. Mandriva) on older hardware, and it's really really slow, even without the graphical stuff. This is for instance a Dual PII-450 with SCSI 10000RPM disks and 1GB RAM. At the time such hardware was new it was the fastest machine you could assemble, and the distro you could run was a lightning. Like if today you would assemble a Dual six-core i7 985X with 64GB of memory and 6TB RAID disks. And PII don't have the SSE2.<br> + Every time you upgrade the distro, performance drop to half (it's not a matter of optimization, it's because the X11 become bigger, the kernel fatter because more and more stuff added, more and more checks, the applications bigger, the toolkits slower, the number of libraries higher, ...).<br> + <br>And furthermore the more older system you have the fewer memory you have available. And you can't add more memory because the chipset doesn't support more. In these days also counts the consume of energy, so the tendency is also to replace old hardware which consumes too much power compared to newer hardware and virtualize the old application|system. Unless of course you wanna experiment some solar panels... ;-)<br> +<br>Often even doing the installation from scratch won't work anymore, because the higher memory requirements. So I really want to know a REAL survey of still old (oldest) hardware running and USING the latest distro (latest means LATEST, not 1 or 2 years ago distro). I myself have seen even in production (of course not on the internet so you don't need patches) systems with MDK 7.2 with 128MB RAM and K6, but they wouldn't dare to upgrade it to the latest.<br> +<br>That's why I said to drop things that nowadays NOBODY uses anymore. Then if someone has such hardware, it wouldn't be a problem of adding a kernel module to the kernel list for a certain card that still is used. Of course you can argue, that certainly a newer system would have the 64bit instruction set support (which has even the SSE2 as lowest common denominator), so a user there would certainly install the 64bit system and not the 32 one. Then I say this is right.<br> +<br>Regarding VIA C3, I wonder exactly which model you have, how much memory, and which distro you are running on it. As at least 4-5 years old C3 core Nehemiah models have support for SSE, SSE2, and even crypto hardware optimization (that even Intel or AMD doesn't have).<br> +I'm not saying such hardware is not common, but I wonder whether they would install Mageia on it. It even exists slower hardware based on ARM architecture, but there isn't any ARM port of the distro. Or is planned one?<br> + </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +Also dropping kernel modules for old hardware does not bring any<br> +advantage (they are modules anyway so they don't get loaded on systems<br> +where they aren't needed), only disadvantages to those people who need<br> +them.<br></blockquote><div><br>Only advantage is that you get kernel package thinner and building time shorter :-)<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> + +<br> +So please let's try to be as comprehensive as possible, not exclude<br> +potential users by creating needless limits and restrictions.<br> +<div><div></div><br></div></blockquote><div><br>It's not a matter of excluding potential users, rather providing the real requirements, not "it SHOULD work because we compiled with -march=i586...).<br><br>Bye<br> +Giuseppe.<br><br></div></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/8b8e39b9/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/8b8e39b9/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9dfdfa3fc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/8b8e39b9/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,18 @@ +<div><div>I fully Agree.</div><div>I'm Brazilian. I see many peoples here that uses old PC's and notebooks with simple configuration. I think that Mageia can have an version lite, however not now. In the moment we must keep the focus on a single desktop version (586) .</div> +<div><br></div><div>Júnior</div><br><div class="gmail_quote">Em 25 de setembro de 2010 21:45, André Machado <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:afmachado@dcemail.com">afmachado@dcemail.com</a>></span> escreveu:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> +<div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div class="im">> Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware<br></div><div><div class="im"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"> +<div> +> like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or<br> +> desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be dismantled<br> +> carefully.<br> +<br> +</div>You are seeing everything from a limited european POV, the P4 you say is<br> +being thrown away here is a top-end system in some other countries.<br> +Mageia is supposed to be for the whole world, not just EU/US/BRICs.<br></blockquote></div><div><div class="im"><br>I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based on own experiences.<br> +<br></div>I fully agree, At "first world" countries, Like Europe ones or USA, people can buy the most recet PCS, but at "Thrird world" countries - Like Brazil, what is part of BRIC, or many Africa nations - this is very unacessible by population, even with government programs, like Brazil's "Computador para Todos" (computer for everyone) that sells low-cost PCs with inferior hardware, <span><span title="">often leftover stock lines earlier from the U.S. and Europe. In many department shops here, for example, Core2Duo is </span></span><span><span title="">sold as if it were the last flavor of the moment.</span></span><br> +<br>If, where you are, Pentium I - 4 and 32-bit platform is a museum thing, in most World parts, is not. I know people that, nowadays, uses a Pentium 200 with 64MB RAM as main computer.<br><br>Despite Mageia main target be current computers, we must think in these people; 32-bit will not die anytime soon. Then: Do we need compile 32-bit edition as i586 - and support Pentium and above, i686 - and support Pentium Pro and above, or do a Mageia Lite edition?<br> +<br>[PS: <span><span title="">I did not break the thread this time, broke?</span></span>]<br></div></div><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev" target="_blank"></a><br> <br><hr>Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> <a href="http://www.DCemail.com" target="_blank">http://www.DCemail.com</a> ---> A Washington Online Community Member ---><br> +<a href="http://www.DCpages.com" target="_blank">http://www.DCpages.com</a></div><br>_______________________________________________<br> +Mageia-dev mailing list<br> +<a href="mailto:Mageia-dev@mageia.org">Mageia-dev@mageia.org</a><br> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev" target="_blank">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/8b8e39b9/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/8b8e39b9/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9dfdfa3fc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/8b8e39b9/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,18 @@ +<div><div>I fully Agree.</div><div>I'm Brazilian. I see many peoples here that uses old PC's and notebooks with simple configuration. I think that Mageia can have an version lite, however not now. In the moment we must keep the focus on a single desktop version (586) .</div> +<div><br></div><div>Júnior</div><br><div class="gmail_quote">Em 25 de setembro de 2010 21:45, André Machado <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:afmachado@dcemail.com">afmachado@dcemail.com</a>></span> escreveu:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> +<div style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div class="im">> Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware<br></div><div><div class="im"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex"> +<div> +> like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or<br> +> desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be dismantled<br> +> carefully.<br> +<br> +</div>You are seeing everything from a limited european POV, the P4 you say is<br> +being thrown away here is a top-end system in some other countries.<br> +Mageia is supposed to be for the whole world, not just EU/US/BRICs.<br></blockquote></div><div><div class="im"><br>I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based on own experiences.<br> +<br></div>I fully agree, At "first world" countries, Like Europe ones or USA, people can buy the most recet PCS, but at "Thrird world" countries - Like Brazil, what is part of BRIC, or many Africa nations - this is very unacessible by population, even with government programs, like Brazil's "Computador para Todos" (computer for everyone) that sells low-cost PCs with inferior hardware, <span><span title="">often leftover stock lines earlier from the U.S. and Europe. In many department shops here, for example, Core2Duo is </span></span><span><span title="">sold as if it were the last flavor of the moment.</span></span><br> +<br>If, where you are, Pentium I - 4 and 32-bit platform is a museum thing, in most World parts, is not. I know people that, nowadays, uses a Pentium 200 with 64MB RAM as main computer.<br><br>Despite Mageia main target be current computers, we must think in these people; 32-bit will not die anytime soon. Then: Do we need compile 32-bit edition as i586 - and support Pentium and above, i686 - and support Pentium Pro and above, or do a Mageia Lite edition?<br> +<br>[PS: <span><span title="">I did not break the thread this time, broke?</span></span>]<br></div></div><a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev" target="_blank"></a><br> <br><hr>Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> <a href="http://www.DCemail.com" target="_blank">http://www.DCemail.com</a> ---> A Washington Online Community Member ---><br> +<a href="http://www.DCpages.com" target="_blank">http://www.DCpages.com</a></div><br>_______________________________________________<br> +Mageia-dev mailing list<br> +<a href="mailto:Mageia-dev@mageia.org">Mageia-dev@mageia.org</a><br> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev" target="_blank">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/c79acd86/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/c79acd86/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..140a88389 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/c79acd86/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,8 @@ +<DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;">> Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware<BR><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><DIV>
+> like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or<BR>
+> desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be dismantled<BR>
+> carefully.<BR>
+<BR>
+</DIV>You are seeing everything from a limited european POV, the P4 you say is<BR>
+being thrown away here is a top-end system in some other countries.<BR>
+Mageia is supposed to be for the whole world, not just EU/US/BRICs.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR>I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based on own experiences.<BR><BR>I fully agree, At "first world" countries, Like Europe ones or USA, people can buy the most recet PCS, but at "Thrird world" countries - Like Brazil, what is part of BRIC, or many Africa nations - this is very unacessible by population, even with government programs, like Brazil's "Computador para Todos" (computer for everyone) that sells low-cost PCs with inferior hardware, <SPAN><SPAN style="" title="">often leftover stock lines earlier from the U.S. and Europe. In many department shops here, for example, Core2Duo is </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><SPAN style="" title="">sold as if it were the last flavor of the moment.</SPAN></SPAN><BR><BR>If, where you are, Pentium I - 4 and 32-bit platform is a museum thing, in most World parts, is not. I know people that, nowadays, uses a Pentium 200 with 64MB RAM as main computer.<BR><BR>Despite Mageia main target be current computers, we must think in these people; 32-bit will not die anytime soon. Then: Do we need compile 32-bit edition as i586 - and support Pentium and above, i686 - and support Pentium Pro and above, or do a Mageia Lite edition?<BR><BR>[PS: <SPAN><SPAN style="" title="">I did not break the thread this time, broke?</SPAN></SPAN>]<BR></DIV></DIV><A href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev"></A><BR> <BR><HR>Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> http://www.DCemail.com ---> A Washington Online Community Member ---><BR>http://www.DCpages.com</DIV>
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/c79acd86/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/c79acd86/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..140a88389 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/c79acd86/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,8 @@ +<DIV style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif; font-size:10pt;">> Common where? There are schools and universities are dismitting hardware<BR><DIV><BLOCKQUOTE style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><DIV>
+> like with P4/2.4Ghz and 512MB RAM for whatever use (either server or<BR>
+> desktop). And even older hardware no-ROHS, which should be dismantled<BR>
+> carefully.<BR>
+<BR>
+</DIV>You are seeing everything from a limited european POV, the P4 you say is<BR>
+being thrown away here is a top-end system in some other countries.<BR>
+Mageia is supposed to be for the whole world, not just EU/US/BRICs.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR>I don't want to deprive the fun of building a router or a firewall from an old P133/64 with two ethernet cards, or some mediabox, but often you can't (and sometimes you pay of energy power in a year much more than getting some 30-50E linksys ARM linux based router. And when soemone try such kind of attempts in the real world with your distro, will be very disappointed of failures. That's why I in some way asked a survey of oldest hardware based on own experiences.<BR><BR>I fully agree, At "first world" countries, Like Europe ones or USA, people can buy the most recet PCS, but at "Thrird world" countries - Like Brazil, what is part of BRIC, or many Africa nations - this is very unacessible by population, even with government programs, like Brazil's "Computador para Todos" (computer for everyone) that sells low-cost PCs with inferior hardware, <SPAN><SPAN style="" title="">often leftover stock lines earlier from the U.S. and Europe. In many department shops here, for example, Core2Duo is </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><SPAN style="" title="">sold as if it were the last flavor of the moment.</SPAN></SPAN><BR><BR>If, where you are, Pentium I - 4 and 32-bit platform is a museum thing, in most World parts, is not. I know people that, nowadays, uses a Pentium 200 with 64MB RAM as main computer.<BR><BR>Despite Mageia main target be current computers, we must think in these people; 32-bit will not die anytime soon. Then: Do we need compile 32-bit edition as i586 - and support Pentium and above, i686 - and support Pentium Pro and above, or do a Mageia Lite edition?<BR><BR>[PS: <SPAN><SPAN style="" title="">I did not break the thread this time, broke?</SPAN></SPAN>]<BR></DIV></DIV><A href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev"></A><BR> <BR><HR>Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. ---> http://www.DCemail.com ---> A Washington Online Community Member ---><BR>http://www.DCpages.com</DIV>
\ No newline at end of file diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/f7e15fc1/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/f7e15fc1/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a98b7e44c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/f7e15fc1/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,5 @@ +<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/9/25 R James <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:upsnag2@gmail.com">upsnag2@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +I *definitely* do not want to see dropping support for everything that<br> +doesn't do SSE2 (which was discussed in the Fedora thread you linked).<br></blockquote><div><br>I read the <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support</a>. IMHO optimizing for some ATOM specific CPU get 1% improvement, IMHO those are peanuts and not worthwhile to change anything at cost of loosing compatibility. ATOM and distro and applications running on ATOMs needs much much more boosts (BTW, I've ATOM 450 and I run directly the 64bit 2010.1 distro on it, so should be SSE2 optimzed at source, and IMHO it is still underpowered for plain tasks).<br> +<br>G.<br><br></div></div> diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/f7e15fc1/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/f7e15fc1/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a98b7e44c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20100925/f7e15fc1/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,5 @@ +<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/9/25 R James <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:upsnag2@gmail.com">upsnag2@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> +<br> +I *definitely* do not want to see dropping support for everything that<br> +doesn't do SSE2 (which was discussed in the Fedora thread you linked).<br></blockquote><div><br>I read the <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/F12X86Support</a>. IMHO optimizing for some ATOM specific CPU get 1% improvement, IMHO those are peanuts and not worthwhile to change anything at cost of loosing compatibility. ATOM and distro and applications running on ATOMs needs much much more boosts (BTW, I've ATOM 450 and I run directly the 64bit 2010.1 distro on it, so should be SSE2 optimzed at source, and IMHO it is still underpowered for plain tasks).<br> +<br>G.<br><br></div></div> |