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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-April/013995.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-April/013995.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..19625e959 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2012-April/013995.html @@ -0,0 +1,143 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%0A%09%3D%3Fiso-8859-1%3Fq%3Fpainful_discussion_n%3DB01%3D3A_debloatin%3F%3D%0A%09%3D%3Fiso-8859-1%3Fq%3Fg%3F%3D&In-Reply-To=%3C201204070918.44588.thomas%40btspuhler.com%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="013993.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="013996.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating</H1> + <B>Thomas Spuhler</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%0A%09%3D%3Fiso-8859-1%3Fq%3Fpainful_discussion_n%3DB01%3D3A_debloatin%3F%3D%0A%09%3D%3Fiso-8859-1%3Fq%3Fg%3F%3D&In-Reply-To=%3C201204070918.44588.thomas%40btspuhler.com%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating">thomas at btspuhler.com + </A><BR> + <I>Sat Apr 7 18:18:43 CEST 2012</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="013993.html">[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="013996.html">[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#13995">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#13995">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#13995">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#13995">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>On Saturday, April 07, 2012 08:38:39 AM Guillaume Rousse wrote: +><i> If thos of you lucky enough to have missed the beginning of the story, +</I>><i> here are the importants parts: +</I>><i> - first round: bug #4357, still marked as release blocker (despite a bit +</I>><i> excessive IMHO) +</I>><i> - second round: discussion on -dev, archived here: +</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/013342.html">https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/2012-March/013342.html</A> +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The whole issue turns around the unfortunate consequence of adding new +</I>><i> dependencies, for various reasons, between packages and in installer: +</I>><i> bloated minimal installation. In this case, this is about a specific +</I>><i> *soft* dependency from gnome-keyring to seahorse, which has painful +</I>><i> consequences, as outline by TV in comment #5 of the original report. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Suggestion sofar for this initial problem have been suggested: +</I>><i> 1) move the gnome-keyring -> seahorse soft dependency either in +</I>><i> task-gnome, or task-gnome-minimal +</I>><i> 2) turn the mandatory dependency between libgnome-keyring to +</I>><i> gnome-keyring into a soft dependency +</I>><i> 3) remove the dependency on a gnome component from the KDE category in +</I>><i> the installer +</I>><i> +</I>><i> But sofar, nothing was done AFAIK, the bug is still open. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> From my own personal and biased reading, solution #3, makes sense. +</I>><i> Actually, it would only adress a part of the problem, as installing the +</I>><i> distribution doesn't mandatorily means 'running the installer'. chroot +</I>><i> installation, for instance, or automated installations, are not affected +</I>><i> by rpmsrate, but still face side-effect of those nasty 'useful' +</I>><i> dependencies between packages. Of course, this only concern expert +</I>><i> users, who usually know about --no-suggest urpmi option. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Solution #1 would also make some sense for me. As pointed out by TV, you +</I>><i> don't mandatorily install gnome-keyring because you need it, but because +</I>><i> you don't have the choice, and something else introduced it without +</I>><i> asking you. That's a bit difficult to argue in this case that you may +</I>><i> need seahorse to manage your keys, merely because you problably never +</I>><i> intended to store keys anyway. So I'd also implement this solution, +</I>><i> despite once again, if you really care, you may use --no-suggest also. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Solution #2, tough, would introduce some precedent. AFAIK, all gnome +</I>><i> libs unfortunatly require their binaries to be installed alongside to be +</I>><i> used, for I can't remember technical reason. So, I'd rather reject it. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> To summarize it: +</I>><i> - has anyone any opposition to remove the totem-mozilla - KDE +</I>><i> relationship in the installer ? +</I> +I'd go for this. + +><i> - Olav (or anyone else), do you have any objection to *also* move the +</I>><i> soft dependency from gnome-keyring to seahorse to either task-gnome or +</I>><i> task-gnome-minimal ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> More generally, we still lack a clear view of interactions between +</I>><i> choice hardcoded in installer rpmsrate, and two different kind of +</I>><i> dependencies between packages. And a general policy on this kind of +</I>><i> issues, aiming a correct balance between 'avoinding poor users the pain +</I>><i> of installing additional stuff themselves' and 'keeping system minimal'. +</I> +-- +Best regards +Thomas Spuhler +</PRE> + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="013993.html">[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="013996.html">[Mageia-dev] painful discussion n°1: debloating +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#13995">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#13995">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#13995">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#13995">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |