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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-October/009239.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-October/009239.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4b437e161 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/2011-October/009239.html @@ -0,0 +1,139 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Please%20test%3A%20initscripts%2Bsystemd%20in%20updates_testing&In-Reply-To=%3C1320077259.2218.22.camel%40localhost%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="009229.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="009242.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing</H1> + <B>Michael Scherer</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20Please%20test%3A%20initscripts%2Bsystemd%20in%20updates_testing&In-Reply-To=%3C1320077259.2218.22.camel%40localhost%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing">misc at zarb.org + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Oct 31 17:07:39 CET 2011</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="009229.html">[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="009242.html">[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#9239">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#9239">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#9239">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#9239">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le dimanche 30 octobre 2011 à 14:19 +0200, Thomas Backlund a écrit : +><i> Colin Guthrie skrev 30.10.2011 13:26: +</I>><i> > 'Twas brillig, and Thomas Backlund at 29/10/11 21:13 did gyre and gimble: +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >> So? +</I>><i> >> it's less impact on / than stuffing all of /usr on / +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. You'd be +</I>><i> > moving a whole bunch of stuff to /... And it becomes very tricky to +</I>><i> > administer exactly what to move to / as the dependencies are non-trivial +</I>><i> > to work out, the QA burden is very high to test all the various +</I>><i> > combinations of setups to ensure all the required bits have been moved to / +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > After doing all that QA and ensuring all is well, then the whole +</I>><i> > separate of /usr and / is totally blurred anyway. As someone campaigning +</I>><i> > to keep /usr on a separate partition, I'd have thought this was what you +</I>><i> > were trying to protect against in the first place... it seems totally +</I>><i> > contradictory to suggest this as a solution. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > Keep in mind that one of the key aims in highlighting this issue via +</I>><i> > systemd is to actually ALLOW /usr to be a useful and self contained +</I>><i> > filesystem. If /usr is properly configured without leaking half of it to +</I>><i> > / it could be shared across multiple machines far more easily or even +</I>><i> > mounted as ro by default which could prove handy for security. Again, +</I>><i> > this is about highlighting the issues with an aim to making /usr much +</I>><i> > more useful. This is a laudable aim but you seem to be shooting it down +</I>><i> > due to gut reactions and prejudice. I've not yet seen any technical +</I>><i> > arguments from you about the topic. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm saying moving the stuff that is _really_ needed, not based on "udev +</I>><i> might run"... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> well, thinking some more on it I guess the real design flaw (not systemd +</I>><i> specific) is using all of udev in init. Init should not care about more +</I>><i> than getting disc access (and probably network for pxe boots) +</I> +That's the point that Lennart make, ie : +"we used to have / to mount all partition and /usr to be mounted, now, +we have initramfs to mount /, and then / to mount /usr, so it would be +simpler to merge / and /usr" + +So that's simple. For stuff needed for initial boot, we have initrd, for +the rest, that's /usr/ + +<A HREF="http://www.spinics.net/lists/fedora-devel/msg158642.html">http://www.spinics.net/lists/fedora-devel/msg158642.html</A> + +><i> Then we wouldn't have to worry about "what udev might run" and could +</I>><i> keep a very clean / +</I>><i> +</I>><i> >> Well, it _is_ idiotic if it breaks working setups / possibilities to +</I>><i> >> finetune systems. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> > It depends on your definition of "working". Sure if you specifically +</I>><i> > work around the know limitations of the design then you may get a +</I>><i> > bootable system, which you could classify as working, but I wouldn't say +</I>><i> > this is a robust base. Just a house of cards waiting for the next +</I>><i> > failure. I'd rather try and address the problems properly and be frank +</I>><i> > about it in the discussions. +</I>><i> > +</I>><i> +</I>><i> Well, it has worked 24/7 for servers for atleast last 15 years for +</I>><i> servers I maintain, so I'd say that is pretty robust. +</I> +That's also what people say about manually compiling software in +solaris, and I think they are wrong, so that's not really a compeling +argument to my eyes. + +In fact "using packages prevent me from finetuning my software" is also +a common and recuring theme from the same people ( well, slightly less +recuring nowadays as I didn't meet people telling me so since gentoo and +slackware usage slightly dropped ). + +We have unix server since 1970, that doesn't mean the assumption that +lead to some design decision are not open to be revisited. +-- +Michael Scherer + +</PRE> + + + + + + + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="009229.html">[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="009242.html">[Mageia-dev] Please test: initscripts+systemd in updates_testing +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#9239">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#9239">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#9239">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#9239">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |