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+Re,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/11/3 Samuel Verschelde <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:stormi@laposte.net">stormi@laposte.net</a>&gt;</span><br><div> I tried to explain this project there : <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a></div>
+<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+- allow to browse the package database, provide the main informations about packages, like any other distribution does (see <a href="http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages" target="_blank">http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages</a> for example).<br>
+</blockquote><div><br></div><div>or like <a href="http://sophie.zarb.org">http://sophie.zarb.org</a> for  <a href="http://sophie.zarb.org/rpm/cooker,/gcompris">http://sophie.zarb.org/rpm/cooker,/gcompris</a> gcompris package (would be in task-edu ?)</div>
+<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+- focus on interaction between users, testers and packagers (backports requests and voting, new soft requests and voting, and the other way round : testing requests from packagers to users)<br></blockquote><div><br></div>
+<div>well, sophie does not address this, indeed :)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+- customizable user notifications on your home page, RSS feed or e-mail (new backport available for you preferred soft, new update candidate available and awaiting testing...)<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>additions to sophie (nearly existing) </div>
+<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+I tried to explain this project there : <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb" target="_blank">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div>congrats, from what I&#39;ve seen, it&#39;s approved by the board :-) </div>
+<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><br>
+It was announced yesterday during the founders meeting : <a href="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=meetings" target="_blank">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=meetings</a><br>
+<br>
+The project is at its very beginning, and the task is huge, so we&#39;ll proceed step by step. You can see our temporary roadmap here : <a href="http://github.com/agallou/mageia-app-db/wiki/ROADMAP" target="_blank">http://github.com/agallou/mageia-app-db/wiki/ROADMAP</a><br>
+
+</blockquote><div><br></div><div>o_O tell the difference between what exists and what could be added :) </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+
+Right now, I&#39;m mainly interested in your comments on this project, and also welcome any suggestions about the needs we have to answer (did we forget something ?), and ideas of functionalities. It doesn&#39;t mean we&#39;ll be able to implement everything, but at this stage I want to envision every possible idea :) </blockquote>
+<div><br></div><div>I think that addition to what exists should be privileged, be it sophie or <a href="http://doc4.mandriva.org">http://doc4.mandriva.org</a> (when it works :/). Existing solutions being added and analysed at the bottom of <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a> and appropriately documented when it answers practical requirements :-) (yeah voting is all a part of it being successful imho :D people taking in charge being a reason for effective success).</div>
+<div><br></div><div>@++</div><div>Ben&#39;. aka baud123</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+ </blockquote></div><br>
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/442d98d6/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/442d98d6/attachment.html
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+Re,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/11/3 Samuel Verschelde <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:stormi@laposte.net">stormi@laposte.net</a>&gt;</span><br><div> I tried to explain this project there : <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a></div>
+<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+- allow to browse the package database, provide the main informations about packages, like any other distribution does (see <a href="http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages" target="_blank">http://www.debian.org/distrib/packages</a> for example).<br>
+</blockquote><div><br></div><div>or like <a href="http://sophie.zarb.org">http://sophie.zarb.org</a> for  <a href="http://sophie.zarb.org/rpm/cooker,/gcompris">http://sophie.zarb.org/rpm/cooker,/gcompris</a> gcompris package (would be in task-edu ?)</div>
+<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+- focus on interaction between users, testers and packagers (backports requests and voting, new soft requests and voting, and the other way round : testing requests from packagers to users)<br></blockquote><div><br></div>
+<div>well, sophie does not address this, indeed :)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+- customizable user notifications on your home page, RSS feed or e-mail (new backport available for you preferred soft, new update candidate available and awaiting testing...)<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>additions to sophie (nearly existing) </div>
+<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+I tried to explain this project there : <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb" target="_blank">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div>congrats, from what I&#39;ve seen, it&#39;s approved by the board :-) </div>
+<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><br>
+It was announced yesterday during the founders meeting : <a href="http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=meetings" target="_blank">http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=meetings</a><br>
+<br>
+The project is at its very beginning, and the task is huge, so we&#39;ll proceed step by step. You can see our temporary roadmap here : <a href="http://github.com/agallou/mageia-app-db/wiki/ROADMAP" target="_blank">http://github.com/agallou/mageia-app-db/wiki/ROADMAP</a><br>
+
+</blockquote><div><br></div><div>o_O tell the difference between what exists and what could be added :) </div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+
+Right now, I&#39;m mainly interested in your comments on this project, and also welcome any suggestions about the needs we have to answer (did we forget something ?), and ideas of functionalities. It doesn&#39;t mean we&#39;ll be able to implement everything, but at this stage I want to envision every possible idea :) </blockquote>
+<div><br></div><div>I think that addition to what exists should be privileged, be it sophie or <a href="http://doc4.mandriva.org">http://doc4.mandriva.org</a> (when it works :/). Existing solutions being added and analysed at the bottom of <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a> and appropriately documented when it answers practical requirements :-) (yeah voting is all a part of it being successful imho :D people taking in charge being a reason for effective success).</div>
+<div><br></div><div>@++</div><div>Ben&#39;. aka baud123</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
+ </blockquote></div><br>
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/51875021/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/51875021/attachment-0001.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
+<html>
+  <head>
+    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
+      http-equiv="Content-Type">
+    <title></title>
+  </head>
+  <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
+    Well, could we have two kinds of installers to boot?<br>
+    <br>
+    If you want nice effects and such you check a box &amp; if not you
+    just click next.<br>
+    <br>
+    Both sides then gets their way done.<br>
+    <br>
+    J&eacute;r&ocirc;me H&eacute;nin skrev 2010-11-03 18:30:
+    <blockquote
+      cite="mid:AANLkTik6xLLNuf_CTqrGHGzkzbuFMN8aDm3pZM2=miH6@mail.gmail.com"
+      type="cite">
+      <pre wrap="">On 3 November 2010 17:23, Kristoffer Grundstr&ouml;m
+<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kristoffer.grundstrom1983@gmail.com">&lt;kristoffer.grundstrom1983@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:
+</pre>
+      <blockquote type="cite">
+        <pre wrap="">Since Linux is about opensource &amp; Mageia is built with it, could we just
+include programs only based on opensource?
+
+For example:
+
+Gnash instead of Adobe's Flashplayer
+Java-1.6.0-openjdk instead of Java-1.6.0-sun
+
+Perhaps an option in the installer to choose between them?
+</pre>
+      </blockquote>
+      <pre wrap="">
+Giving the user that choice is the current Mandriva policy, and I
+don't see an intention to change it in Mageia. It's actually stated in
+the Mageia Values.
+
+</pre>
+      <blockquote type="cite">
+        <pre wrap="">Also...........graphically I feel the installer &amp; its layout is kinda
+boring.
+
+Have you compared with other installers to make a better one?
+</pre>
+      </blockquote>
+      <pre wrap="">
+Personally, I *like* my OS installers boring. For the following reasons:
+1) I should be using them only rarely
+2) when I do, I should focus on what I am doing, not on the looks of
+the installer.
+
+So I like a clean-looking installer with a focus on reliability,
+functionality, reliability, and more reliability.
+
+Just my tuppence.
+J&eacute;r&ocirc;me
+</pre>
+    </blockquote>
+  </body>
+</html>
+
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/51875021/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/51875021/attachment.html
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+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
+<html>
+  <head>
+    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
+      http-equiv="Content-Type">
+    <title></title>
+  </head>
+  <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
+    Well, could we have two kinds of installers to boot?<br>
+    <br>
+    If you want nice effects and such you check a box &amp; if not you
+    just click next.<br>
+    <br>
+    Both sides then gets their way done.<br>
+    <br>
+    J&eacute;r&ocirc;me H&eacute;nin skrev 2010-11-03 18:30:
+    <blockquote
+      cite="mid:AANLkTik6xLLNuf_CTqrGHGzkzbuFMN8aDm3pZM2=miH6@mail.gmail.com"
+      type="cite">
+      <pre wrap="">On 3 November 2010 17:23, Kristoffer Grundstr&ouml;m
+<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kristoffer.grundstrom1983@gmail.com">&lt;kristoffer.grundstrom1983@gmail.com&gt;</a> wrote:
+</pre>
+      <blockquote type="cite">
+        <pre wrap="">Since Linux is about opensource &amp; Mageia is built with it, could we just
+include programs only based on opensource?
+
+For example:
+
+Gnash instead of Adobe's Flashplayer
+Java-1.6.0-openjdk instead of Java-1.6.0-sun
+
+Perhaps an option in the installer to choose between them?
+</pre>
+      </blockquote>
+      <pre wrap="">
+Giving the user that choice is the current Mandriva policy, and I
+don't see an intention to change it in Mageia. It's actually stated in
+the Mageia Values.
+
+</pre>
+      <blockquote type="cite">
+        <pre wrap="">Also...........graphically I feel the installer &amp; its layout is kinda
+boring.
+
+Have you compared with other installers to make a better one?
+</pre>
+      </blockquote>
+      <pre wrap="">
+Personally, I *like* my OS installers boring. For the following reasons:
+1) I should be using them only rarely
+2) when I do, I should focus on what I am doing, not on the looks of
+the installer.
+
+So I like a clean-looking installer with a focus on reliability,
+functionality, reliability, and more reliability.
+
+Just my tuppence.
+J&eacute;r&ocirc;me
+</pre>
+    </blockquote>
+  </body>
+</html>
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/9d875928/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/9d875928/attachment-0001.html
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+<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 23:27, Samuel Verschelde <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:stormi@laposte.net">stormi@laposte.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
+I tried to explain this project there : <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb" target="_blank">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a><br>
+<br></blockquote><div>The more I look at the project, the more I like it. <br><br>A comment on one aspect : as it would become the preferred interface to inquire about the state of an app/package, I think the interface (and link to bugzilla) for bug reporting will be crucial for the transition from passive to active users.<br>
+<br>I will help with testing, perhaps more. <br> </div><br></div>-- <br><br>Frederic<br>
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/9d875928/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/9d875928/attachment.html
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+<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 23:27, Samuel Verschelde <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:stormi@laposte.net">stormi@laposte.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
+I tried to explain this project there : <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb" target="_blank">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a><br>
+<br></blockquote><div>The more I look at the project, the more I like it. <br><br>A comment on one aspect : as it would become the preferred interface to inquire about the state of an app/package, I think the interface (and link to bugzilla) for bug reporting will be crucial for the transition from passive to active users.<br>
+<br>I will help with testing, perhaps more. <br> </div><br></div>-- <br><br>Frederic<br>
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/cdbe7188/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/cdbe7188/attachment-0001.html
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+<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 22:38, Samuel Verschelde <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:stormi@laposte.net">stormi@laposte.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
+Le jeudi 4 novembre 2010 02:00:22, Frederic Janssens a écrit :<br>
+<div><div></div><div class="h5">&gt; On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 23:27, Samuel Verschelde &lt;<a href="mailto:stormi@laposte.net">stormi@laposte.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; I tried to explain this project there :<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb" target="_blank">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a><br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; The more I look at the project, the more I like it.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; A comment on one aspect : as it would become the preferred interface to<br>
+&gt; inquire about the state of an app/package, I think the interface (and link<br>
+&gt; to bugzilla) for bug reporting will be crucial for the transition from<br>
+&gt; passive to active users.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; I will help with testing, perhaps more.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+<br>
+</div></div>Thanks. You help will be welcome. I also think that information must flow between bugzilla and mageia-app-db as much as possible, we&#39;ll see how this is possible. Maybe this is a part of the project you could investigate ?<br>
+<br></blockquote><div>Yes.<br>I&#39;m not very familiar with bugzilla, but I&#39;m looking into it.<br> <br>Another aspect I have been thinking about is to have, per package/app, a page giving a synthetic view :<br><br>lines = versions of the app (reverse chrolonogy)<br>
+columns = versions of Mageia (and cauldron)<br>        with rpm availability, updates, backports (actual, or requests)<br>        and simple visual representation of stats : usage, &quot;satisfaction&quot;, <br>        &quot;open bugs&quot;  ... (with link to details)<br>
+</div></div>-- <br><br>Frederic<br>
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/cdbe7188/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/cdbe7188/attachment.html
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+<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 22:38, Samuel Verschelde <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:stormi@laposte.net">stormi@laposte.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
+Le jeudi 4 novembre 2010 02:00:22, Frederic Janssens a écrit :<br>
+<div><div></div><div class="h5">&gt; On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 23:27, Samuel Verschelde &lt;<a href="mailto:stormi@laposte.net">stormi@laposte.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; I tried to explain this project there :<br>
+&gt; &gt; <a href="http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb" target="_blank">http://mageiacauldron.tuxfamily.org/MageiaAppDb</a><br>
+&gt; &gt;<br>
+&gt; &gt; The more I look at the project, the more I like it.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; A comment on one aspect : as it would become the preferred interface to<br>
+&gt; inquire about the state of an app/package, I think the interface (and link<br>
+&gt; to bugzilla) for bug reporting will be crucial for the transition from<br>
+&gt; passive to active users.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+&gt; I will help with testing, perhaps more.<br>
+&gt;<br>
+<br>
+</div></div>Thanks. You help will be welcome. I also think that information must flow between bugzilla and mageia-app-db as much as possible, we&#39;ll see how this is possible. Maybe this is a part of the project you could investigate ?<br>
+<br></blockquote><div>Yes.<br>I&#39;m not very familiar with bugzilla, but I&#39;m looking into it.<br> <br>Another aspect I have been thinking about is to have, per package/app, a page giving a synthetic view :<br><br>lines = versions of the app (reverse chrolonogy)<br>
+columns = versions of Mageia (and cauldron)<br>        with rpm availability, updates, backports (actual, or requests)<br>        and simple visual representation of stats : usage, &quot;satisfaction&quot;, <br>        &quot;open bugs&quot;  ... (with link to details)<br>
+</div></div>-- <br><br>Frederic<br>
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/de193223/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20101104/de193223/attachment-0001.html
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@@ -0,0 +1,56 @@
+<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
+<html>
+  <head>
+    <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
+      http-equiv="Content-Type">
+    <title></title>
+  </head>
+  <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
+    Then how are people that's new to the system meant to learn how
+    certain things work?<br>
+    <br>
+    John skrev 2010-11-04 09:01:
+    <blockquote cite="mid:20101104210124.d80ee1e4.john@neodoc.biz"
+      type="cite">
+      <pre wrap="">On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 05:18:48 +0100
+Kristoffer Grundstr&ouml;m wrote:
+
+</pre>
+      <blockquote type="cite">
+        <pre wrap="">Well, could we have two kinds of installers to boot?
+
+If you want nice effects and such you check a box &amp; if not you just
+click next.
+
+Both sides then gets their way done.
+</pre>
+      </blockquote>
+      <pre wrap="">
+Why two installers or install methods?
+
+To me, it seems to be waste of resources we could be using elsewhere. Yes
+I know it's all about choice(s) but at this level?
+
+An installer has the purpose of doing just that, as cleanly and as
+efficiently as possible, with as little user interaction as is possible.
+
+Seriously, the last thing the new or inexperienced user needs is yet
+another choice - the new user more than likely has no idea of what here or
+she is required to do anyway and presenting them with a choice of pretty
+or utility for the installer is likely confuse even more.
+
+We already have a very good installation method, a method which for the
+most part is able to interrogate the hardware and make sane/sensible
+descisions on that basis without a large amount of user interaction.
+
+Yes, I agree that some parts of the present installer need a little polish
+in some areas but a 'pretty' one is not going to change that either.
+
+My vote is stay with what we have plus a little polishing
+
+John NZ
+</pre>
+    </blockquote>
+  </body>
+</html>
+
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+    Then how are people that's new to the system meant to learn how
+    certain things work?<br>
+    <br>
+    John skrev 2010-11-04 09:01:
+    <blockquote cite="mid:20101104210124.d80ee1e4.john@neodoc.biz"
+      type="cite">
+      <pre wrap="">On Thu, 04 Nov 2010 05:18:48 +0100
+Kristoffer Grundstr&ouml;m wrote:
+
+</pre>
+      <blockquote type="cite">
+        <pre wrap="">Well, could we have two kinds of installers to boot?
+
+If you want nice effects and such you check a box &amp; if not you just
+click next.
+
+Both sides then gets their way done.
+</pre>
+      </blockquote>
+      <pre wrap="">
+Why two installers or install methods?
+
+To me, it seems to be waste of resources we could be using elsewhere. Yes
+I know it's all about choice(s) but at this level?
+
+An installer has the purpose of doing just that, as cleanly and as
+efficiently as possible, with as little user interaction as is possible.
+
+Seriously, the last thing the new or inexperienced user needs is yet
+another choice - the new user more than likely has no idea of what here or
+she is required to do anyway and presenting them with a choice of pretty
+or utility for the installer is likely confuse even more.
+
+We already have a very good installation method, a method which for the
+most part is able to interrogate the hardware and make sane/sensible
+descisions on that basis without a large amount of user interaction.
+
+Yes, I agree that some parts of the present installer need a little polish
+in some areas but a 'pretty' one is not going to change that either.
+
+My vote is stay with what we have plus a little polishing
+
+John NZ
+</pre>
+    </blockquote>
+  </body>
+</html>