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| author | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
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| committer | Nicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org> | 2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000 |
| commit | 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 (patch) | |
| tree | b175f9d5fcb107576dabc768e7bd04d4a3e491a0 /zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101004/002160.html | |
| parent | fa5098cf210b23ab4f419913e28af7b1b07dafb2 (diff) | |
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diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101004/002160.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101004/002160.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4387a75de --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101004/002160.html @@ -0,0 +1,222 @@ +<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> +<HTML> + <HEAD> + <TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mailing List to Web Forum Bidirectional Gateway + </TITLE> + <LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" > + <LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mailing%20List%20to%20Web%20Forum%20Bidirectional%20Gateway&In-Reply-To=%3Ci8d0c3%248ed%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E"> + <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow"> + <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> + <LINK REL="Previous" HREF="002151.html"> + <LINK REL="Next" HREF="002141.html"> + </HEAD> + <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"> + <H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mailing List to Web Forum Bidirectional Gateway</H1> + <B>Marc Paré</B> + <A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mailing%20List%20to%20Web%20Forum%20Bidirectional%20Gateway&In-Reply-To=%3Ci8d0c3%248ed%241%40dough.gmane.org%3E" + TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mailing List to Web Forum Bidirectional Gateway">marc at marcpare.com + </A><BR> + <I>Mon Oct 4 18:45:54 CEST 2010</I> + <P><UL> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002151.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mailing List to Web Forum Bidirectional Gateway +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002141.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mailing List to Web Forum Bidirectional Gateway +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2160">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2160">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2160">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2160">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + <HR> +<!--beginarticle--> +<PRE>Le 2010-10-04 11:41, Maât a écrit : +><i> Le 04/10/2010 16:58, Marc Paré a écrit : +</I>>><i> Ahh, I see. There seems to be a communication problem here. My +</I>>><i> apologies if I was not clear. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> I was taking the view that with the bidirectional gateway, allowing +</I>>><i> the devs to see and participate in user discussions and they would +</I>>><i> clearly not be forced to read any threads/discussions that they were +</I>>><i> not interested in. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> And you are talking about users participating in dev discussions and +</I>>><i> devs not having the patience for "with useless mail reading or +</I>>><i> questions that support or advanced users can perfectly deal with". +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> No. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> If a user want to suscribe to a dev list and take the risk to raise his +</I>><i> "user voice" in the middle of an expert debate he's free to do so. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> He should though perhaps prepare himself to a "somewhat virile welcome" +</I>><i> but this he should not be forbidden to do that :) +</I>><i> (and he is not) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> I'm talking about users creating "pure" user topics : +</I>><i> -- how do i -- put a RTMF question here -- ? +</I>><i> -- look at my new wallpaper (isn't my new baby dog lovely ?) +</I>><i> -- i think that -- put an old secular troll here -- +</I>><i> -- why do this fscking -- put the package you want here -- works like +</I>><i> that and not like that ? +</I>><i> -- who's the fsking b*stard that removed -- put the removed by upstream +</I>><i> feature you want here -- ? +</I>><i> -- i want to sell my old car to buy a new one... (<A HREF="http://blah">http://blah</A>) who wants +</I>><i> to make an offer ? +</I>><i> -- /et caetera/ +</I>><i> +</I>><i> These topics in a subforum are many. And these topics are precisely what +</I>><i> upset devs and packagers. +</I>><i> And reading those or trying to filter to "separate the wheat from the +</I>><i> chaff" is dev time waste that the +</I>><i> global community should want to minimize... +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I> +Is it not a rule to NOT post a reply to an someone who abuses. Then the +offending thread just dies. There is no problem, if we all follow this +rule. If we all followed this rule then there would be no problem. Why +would a dev or even for that matter a user answer an offending post? We +all know that it is useless. + +>><i> +</I>>><i> So, in a way, we are talking about the same thing but from a different +</I>>><i> perspective. +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> So, this thread is about the merits of a mailist-forum offering +</I>>><i> bidirectional gateway allowing all people to see/communicate with each +</I>>><i> other regardless of the means, mailist, irc, forums etc. If I +</I>>><i> understand your argument, you are saying that devs may not be +</I>>><i> interested in having non-knowledgeable users taking part in their +</I>>><i> discussions as they could find this annoying and they could possibly +</I>>><i> just quit participating in discussions where they are overwhelmed with +</I>>><i> "novice" input. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> No you dit not understand my argument at all :) +</I>><i> (see above ^^) +</I>><i> +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> My argument, is that devs would then have, by the simple process of +</I>>><i> the bidirectional gateway, the ability to "see" everyone's +</I>>><i> conversations and that, whichever conversation would look interesting +</I>>><i> to them, they could join in. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> That they have already : some monitor forums and join in whenever they +</I>><i> want to. +</I>><i> (But this is time consuming. Hence very few do this on a regular basis.) +</I> +But this is quite understandable.The very few who do it then are +enjoying the threads that they follow. I don't think that there is a +problem with this. + +><i> +</I>>><i> Under this whole umbrella everyone would of course have to adhere to +</I>>><i> the normal netiquette rules of conduct as laid out for mailists; irc, +</I>>><i> forums. So, participation for everyone becomes a choice of their own +</I>>><i> and if a discussion thread garners so much attention that it is +</I>>><i> overwhelmed with questions by "less-informed" users/devs, then you +</I>>><i> could either ignore their contributions to the discussion or try to +</I>>><i> inform them of the issues. Often times this will fix the problem. +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> No because you start from the end. One you have a community of perfectly +</I>><i> educated users the problem will disappear beacause users will use +</I>><i> bugtracker and mailing lists... the need of a forum is just the proof +</I>><i> that your start point is a false statement :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> The second point is the volume... with a few list subscibers i am +</I>><i> something like 300 mails late +</I>><i> +</I>><i> With 20 000 forum suscribers (or even 5000) posting that would change +</I>><i> many things. Devs would give up all the list :) +</I>><i> That's as simple as that. +</I> +If the volume of posts increase to that size, then we could all +congratulate ourselves for having such a great and vibrant distro. Devs +would still have the option of following the posts/threads that most +interest them. I would say that the conditions that you describe are +actually those of a successful distro. I would not think that a dev who +initially found a thread that was interesting would just quit on it +because it got too busy. That is when a thread becomes really exciting. + +><i> +</I>><i> Especially since the news will spread that advanced users are answering +</I>><i> "magically" on a specific forum will push all users to try their chance +</I>><i> here and not in an other forum... resulting in a worst flood than you +</I>><i> could imagine :) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And moderators would have to educate people wanting to post there and +</I>><i> not elsewhere. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That's the better way to create a war between moderators and users :-( +</I>><i> +</I> +If users are having to seek out and find devs to try to get their +attention, then I would hope that the mailist, irc, and forums +moderators would be vigilant enough to realize that somewhere along the +way the communication between the users and devs is NOT working. There +is a broken link and user dissatisfaction is growing. This would be a +sign to watch out for from an organizational point of view. It means +that somewhere along the way the communications link is broken. It needs +to be corrected to promote proper communications behaviour. + +>><i> I have been following the thread on mirror infrastructure and have not +</I>>><i> contributed to any of the discussions, but why would I not be +</I>>><i> permitted to sit in on the sidelines? +</I>>><i> +</I>>><i> Marc +</I>>><i> +</I>><i> That's the other part... very different matter. This could be dealt with +</I>><i> a read only forum section. But can you give me a correct estimation of +</I>><i> the extra volume needed for 3 years of forum + ml life with 1000 posters +</I>><i> on one side and 5000+ (more likely 10 000 or 20 000) ? +</I>><i> +</I>><i> And about global system performance once filled with 5 million posts and +</I>><i> browsed by 400 simultaneous active members. +</I>><i> +</I>><i> (And if you imagine to add also Cauldron which can reach the rate of 600 +</I>><i> mails per day just to be able to "to sit in on the sidelines" the volume +</I>><i> is even huger) +</I>><i> +</I>><i> That's why these questions need to be treated with caution :) +</I> +Unfortunately, then the distro would then have to re-evaluate its goals +if the volume of communications is limited by the physical capabilities +of their hardware. It may be that the "community" aspirations of the +distro has struck a serious lack of balance with reality. However, +usually when the participation is at such a height, a community will +rally financially and support the request for more funds for hardware +upgrades. We have to have faith in the overriding community wishes for +the good will of the distro. + +><i> +</I>><i> Cheers, +</I>><i> Maât +</I>><i> +</I>><i> +</I>Cheers + +Marc + +</PRE> + +<!--endarticle--> + <HR> + <P><UL> + <!--threads--> + <LI>Previous message: <A HREF="002151.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mailing List to Web Forum Bidirectional Gateway +</A></li> + <LI>Next message: <A HREF="002141.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mailing List to Web Forum Bidirectional Gateway +</A></li> + <LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B> + <a href="date.html#2160">[ date ]</a> + <a href="thread.html#2160">[ thread ]</a> + <a href="subject.html#2160">[ subject ]</a> + <a href="author.html#2160">[ author ]</a> + </LI> + </UL> + +<hr> +<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list</a><br> +</body></html> |