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authorNicolas Vigier <boklm@mageia.org>2013-04-14 13:46:12 +0000
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+ <H1>[Mageia-dev] [RFC] msec (nail) can't send reports to local users accounts - require an MTA?</H1>
+ <B>nicolas vigier</B>
+ <A HREF="mailto:mageia-dev%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-dev%5D%20%5BRFC%5D%20msec%20%28nail%29%20can%27t%20send%20reports%20to%0A%09local%09users%20accounts%20-%20require%20an%20MTA%3F&In-Reply-To=%3C20111019090123.GE21938%40mars-attacks.org%3E"
+ TITLE="[Mageia-dev] [RFC] msec (nail) can't send reports to local users accounts - require an MTA?">boklm at mars-attacks.org
+ </A><BR>
+ <I>Wed Oct 19 11:01:23 CEST 2011</I>
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+<PRE>On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, andre999 wrote:
+
+&gt;<i> nicolas vigier a &#233;crit :
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> On Tue, 18 Oct 2011, andre999 wrote:
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Balcaen John a &#233;crit :
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Le lundi 17 octobre 2011 16:39:14 nicolas vigier a &#233;crit :
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> I think that :
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> - changing the default configuration in an update is wrong. If it's
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> better that msec do not send emails by default, I think this change
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> should be done in cauldron only, maybe with some note about this change
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> in the release notes for Mageia 2.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Agree.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> A question : wouldn't changing the default in _both_ cauldron and an update
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> to mga1 be acceptable ?
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> I think stable updates should not change defaults.
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Since I really think that sending messages silently to dead.letter,
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> gradually filling up the disk is a bug. (When I first discovered the
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> problem on my system a few years ago, dead.letter used about 1G of disk
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> space in my root partition.)
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> That is what happens with the default setting, if an MTA is not installed.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> At the default settings with an MTA installed, the root mailbox gradually
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> fills up the disk, if it is not emptied. And a less informed user is
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> unlikely to realise this.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> So it seems to me that as a minimum, the default should be changed to _not_
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> send alert emails. Since the status is visible on the main msec screen,
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> informed users should have no problem appropriately adjusting the setting.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> To deal with the potential problem of users who use the email alert feature
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> having it deactivated by the update, we only need a warning in the update,
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> as often occurs for other packages.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Updates should not require manual changes. And not everybody read the
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> update logs from urpmi. People can expect important changes when upgrading
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> to a new version of the distribution, and that's why there is release
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> notes to explain the important changes, but not for stable updates.
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Personally I am much more likely to notice the update log message from
+</I>&gt;<i> urpmi than everything in the release notes. I make a point of reading the
+</I>&gt;<i> former, which necessarily affect an application that I have installed.
+</I>&gt;<i> Most of the release notes comments are either painfully obvious, or affect
+</I>&gt;<i> something that I don't have installed or don't care about, so I tend to
+</I>&gt;<i> miss many details until I run into a problem.
+</I>&gt;<i> In this particular case, the problem would be not getting msec
+</I>&gt;<i> notifications.
+</I>
+People should not expect an update to change something that has been the
+default for years. This kind of change should be done for a new release
+of the distribution, not in updates. If you don't read the release
+notes when doing upgrade changing important things, but always read
+urpmi logs of updates that are supposed to have minimal changes, then
+you're doing something wrong, but I hope not everybody does that.
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> Although I realise that in general it would be better to avoid significant
+</I>&gt;<i> changes in updates, in this case I think that most users would be better
+</I>&gt;<i> served by this change being introduced in an update, rather than in a
+</I>&gt;<i> release.
+</I>
+So you want to break something for some user, to improve it for some
+others ?
+
+This has been the default for years. I don't see any reason to urgently
+change this with an update.
+
+&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> Something like &quot;If you use the msec alert emails, please verify that the
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> alerts are still active.&quot; Note that if the user has ever explicitly set
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> alerts, they would be still active.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> I was mistaken. But editing /etc/security/msec/security.conf to add the
+</I>&gt;<i> line &quot;MAIL_WARN=yes&quot; will protect from a default of &quot;MAIL_WARN=no&quot;.
+</I>&gt;<i> (Tested.)
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> This potential problem would exist even if the next update for the user is
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> mga2.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> However, if the update is on mga2 (from changes in cauldron), wouldn't the
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> change in defaults be less visible ?
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> [...]
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> According to documentation, dma is only active if no other MTA is installed.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> (I don't know if the priority is what causes this.)
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> So at worst dma would be a (very small) harmless extra install, at best it
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i> would ensure the ability for local delivery.
+</I>&gt;&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> Then dma could be installed by default on mageia 2, this would fix the
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> problem for all programs using the sendmail command, not only msec,
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i> without adding a require on dma.
+</I>&gt;&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i>
+</I>&gt;<i> That would work, as long as it is a &quot;require&quot; of Mageia 2.
+</I>
+Not a require, but installed by default. And msec should have a require
+on sendmail-command.
+
+</PRE>
+
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