1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
|
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE> [Mageia-discuss] Mageia-discuss Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 Cooker Updates
</TITLE>
<LINK REL="Index" HREF="index.html" >
<LINK REL="made" HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia-discuss%20Digest%2C%20Vol%207%2C%0A%09Issue%2020%20%20Cooker%20Updates&In-Reply-To=%3C201103100247.10165.laidlaws%40hotkey.net.au%3E">
<META NAME="robots" CONTENT="index,nofollow">
<META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<LINK REL="Previous" HREF="003952.html">
<LINK REL="Next" HREF="003947.html">
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
<H1>[Mageia-discuss] Mageia-discuss Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 Cooker Updates</H1>
<B>Doug Laidlaw</B>
<A HREF="mailto:mageia-discuss%40mageia.org?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BMageia-discuss%5D%20Mageia-discuss%20Digest%2C%20Vol%207%2C%0A%09Issue%2020%20%20Cooker%20Updates&In-Reply-To=%3C201103100247.10165.laidlaws%40hotkey.net.au%3E"
TITLE="[Mageia-discuss] Mageia-discuss Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 Cooker Updates">laidlaws at hotkey.net.au
</A><BR>
<I>Wed Mar 9 16:47:10 CET 2011</I>
<P><UL>
<LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003952.html">[Mageia-discuss] Looking for volunteer for french events
</A></li>
<LI>Next message: <A HREF="003947.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia-discuss Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 Cooker Updates
</A></li>
<LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
<a href="date.html#3946">[ date ]</a>
<a href="thread.html#3946">[ thread ]</a>
<a href="subject.html#3946">[ subject ]</a>
<a href="author.html#3946">[ author ]</a>
</LI>
</UL>
<HR>
<!--beginarticle-->
<PRE>I have been downloading updates for a while.
When Alpha 2 is released, do I need to download it, or will the brew in the
cauldron automagically re-brand my system as Alpha 2? The DVD would be handy
to have as a more current medium for a re-install.
Doug, MDV 2010.2
On Thu, 10 Mar 2011 01:01:41 am <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss-request at mageia.org</A> wrote:
><i> Send Mageia-discuss mailing list submissions to
</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss at mageia.org</A>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss</A>
</I>><i> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss-request at mageia.org</A>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> You can reach the person managing the list at
</I>><i> <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss-owner at mageia.org</A>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
</I>><i> than "Re: Contents of Mageia-discuss digest..."
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Today's Topics:
</I>><i>
</I>><i> 1. alpha1 cooker updates? (Tony Blackwell)
</I>><i> 2. Re: alpha1 cooker updates? (Anne nicolas)
</I>><i> 3. Re: Fwd: Sound in Mageia? (Colin Guthrie)
</I>><i> 4. Mirror (Juergen Harms)
</I>><i> 5. Re: Mirror (Oliver Burger)
</I>><i> 6. Re: Fwd: Sound in Mageia? (Wolfgang Bornath)
</I>><i> 7. Re: Mirror (Wolfgang Bornath)
</I>><i> 8. Re: Mirror (Michael Scherer)
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Message: 1
</I>><i> Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 19:08:50 +1100
</I>><i> From: Tony Blackwell <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">t.blackwell at uq.net.au</A>>
</I>><i> To: <A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss at mageia.org</A>
</I>><i> Subject: [Mageia-discuss] alpha1 cooker updates?
</I>><i> Message-ID: <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">4D773592.2000704 at uq.net.au</A>>
</I>><i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Is alpha1 at the stage where I can point it to a cooker repository so
</I>><i> urpmi can find what is on cooker? Is there a utility yet so alpha1 will
</I>><i> notify me when new packages are available for download?
</I>><i> tonyb
</I>><i>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> ------------------------------
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Message: 2
</I>><i> Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 12:30:10 +0100
</I>><i> From: Anne nicolas <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">ennael1 at gmail.com</A>>
</I>><i> To: Mageia general discussions <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia-discuss at mageia.org</A>>
</I>><i> Subject: Re: [Mageia-discuss] alpha1 cooker updates?
</I>><i> Message-ID:
</I>><i> <AANLkTimGSybaUF_54=<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">ap+GqAmtz8hzH83KBb1Kc2+No9 at mail.gmail.com</A>>
</I>><i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Hi
</I>><i>
</I>><i> 2011/3/9 Tony Blackwell <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">t.blackwell at uq.net.au</A>>:
</I>><i> > Is alpha1 at the stage where I can point it to a cooker repository so
</I>><i> > urpmi can find what is on cooker? Is there a utility yet so alpha1 will
</I>><i> > notify me when new packages are available for download?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> you mean cauldron ? :)
</I>><i> sure have a look here:
</I>><i> <A HREF="http://mirrors.mageia.org/">http://mirrors.mageia.org/</A>
</I>><i>
</I>><i> mdkonline is not yet imported so notification system for updates is
</I>><i> not ready yet
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Cheers
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > tonyb
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > Op dinsdag 08 maart 2011 13:38:36 schreef Wolfgang Bornath:
</I>><i> >> 2011/3/8 Colin Guthrie <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia at colin.guthr.ie</A>>:
</I>><i> >>> Out of curiosity, what did you change it from and to? Can you supply
</I>><i> >>> the "pacmd list" output (just want to double check that the default
</I>><i> >>> profiles/ports are sensible on your h/w).
</I>><i> >>
</I>><i> >> I installed phonon-xine with its dependencies and then in the
</I>><i> >> multimedia section of the KDE configuration I put phonon-xine on top
</I>><i> >> of the list in the backend tab (before it showed only
</I>><i> >> phonon-gstreamer).
</I>><i> >> After that all sound applications worked (dragon, amarok, kscd, vlc,
</I>><i> >> firefox plugins, etc.).
</I>><i> >>
</I>><i> >> See output of "pacmd list" attached.
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > i had a similar problem, but that was codec related of the gstreamer. on
</I>><i> > my machine, phonon-xine worked a lot better than phonon-gstreamer...
</I>><i>
</I>><i> The downside generally is that phonon-xine is not developed (neither is
</I>><i> xine itself), full of very annoying bugs, and has terrible support for
</I>><i> pulseaudio. GStreamer fixes all these issues but obviously introduces
</I>><i> others. Personally I don't have any problem with GST, but obviously
</I>><i> milages varies.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> FWIW, Wobo, what you changed was not "Speaker Configuration" as you
</I>><i> previously indicated... you changed the Phonon Backend. So my reasons
</I>><i> for asking the question no longer apply, which is good :)
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Col
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > 'Twas brillig, and Maarten Vanraes at 08/03/11 19:18 did gyre and gimble:
</I>><i> >> Op dinsdag 08 maart 2011 13:38:36 schreef Wolfgang Bornath:
</I>><i> >>> 2011/3/8 Colin Guthrie <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">mageia at colin.guthr.ie</A>>:
</I>><i> >>>> Out of curiosity, what did you change it from and to? Can you supply
</I>><i> >>>> the "pacmd list" output (just want to double check that the default
</I>><i> >>>> profiles/ports are sensible on your h/w).
</I>><i> >>>
</I>><i> >>> I installed phonon-xine with its dependencies and then in the
</I>><i> >>> multimedia section of the KDE configuration I put phonon-xine on top
</I>><i> >>> of the list in the backend tab (before it showed only
</I>><i> >>> phonon-gstreamer).
</I>><i> >>> After that all sound applications worked (dragon, amarok, kscd, vlc,
</I>><i> >>> firefox plugins, etc.).
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > FWIW, Wobo, what you changed was not "Speaker Configuration" as you
</I>><i> > previously indicated... you changed the Phonon Backend. So my reasons
</I>><i> > for asking the question no longer apply, which is good :)
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I was not precise enough. Here is what happened:
</I>><i>
</I>><i> 03/03/2011:
</I>><i> - I had to install task-pulseaudio with all dependencies AND
</I>><i> - backend was only phonon-gstreamer
</I>><i> - in speaker settings of "phonon" I changed sound device from
</I>><i> "Internal Audio" to "High Definition Audio Controller"
</I>><i> It worked.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> 08/03/2011:
</I>><i> After updates this setup did not work anymore. So I
</I>><i> - installed phonon-xine and put it on top in the backend tab
</I>><i> - changed sound device back to "Internal Audio", the output setting
</I>><i> to "Internal Audio Analog Stereo"
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Works in stereo with internal speakers and headphone.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> This is the current working setup with all updates installed (no
</I>><i> /testing repos set).
</I>><i> This is also the setup I created the "pacmd list" output.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Sorry about the unclear report.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > Talking to people at Switch brought up some facts which Mandriva should
</I>><i> > be aware of:
</I>><i> > ?- There is a heritage of bad experience that has been made with
</I>><i> > Mandriva. ?- It is not the first time that I hear the argument Mageia =
</I>><i> > Mandriva = forgetit.
</I>><i> > ?- Mageia happens at present to be perceived as "just another one of
</I>><i> > those distros that appear and disappear to oblivion" (maybe with a
</I>><i> > component of unfriendlyness towards Linux).
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Yes, I guess this is based on personal opinions and you can't really fight
</I>><i> that.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > By the way, at my university there was a similar experience: Mandriva was
</I>><i> > part of the officially supported infrastructure (mirror, consultancy),
</I>><i> > with fees paid to Mandriva - that broke in dysharmony due to bad
</I>><i> > administrative response from Mandriva, leaving quite some ill feeling.
</I>><i> > Sorry if I wade through these negative arguments, but these
</I>><i> > beyond-the-enthusiast-user spotlights count.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> You can't compare this setup with anything related to Mageia. Mageia
</I>><i> does not ask to become a consultant to Switch and Mageia does not ask
</I>><i> for any fees. Furthermore "bad administrative response" is one of
</I>><i> those things about Mandriva that Mageia will avoid by all means. It
</I>><i> was caused by lack of manpower of a commercial company, something
</I>><i> which is totally different at Mageia.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > I think that, when the stable release approaches, a small campaign to
</I>><i> > rectify these prejudices would be an excellent thing.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Time to rectify those prejudices is now, at any time at any place (not
</I>><i> only with mirror providers but in general).
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > But I think that on the long-run there are lessons to be learned from the
</I>><i> > discussion with Switch - mirrors for a stable Mageia should be preferably
</I>><i> > hosted at professionally run mirror sites (who make the kind of
</I>><i> > consideration I quoted above), university solutions should come as
</I>><i> > additional icing. In case of a second round of discussion on how to
</I>><i> > organise Mageia mirrors, it might be a good idea to have that discussion
</I>><i> > with some participation from the mirror sites.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I can not confirm nor agree to this. As Oliver wrote, 2 universities
</I>><i> already set up a mirror for Mageia and when looking around worldwide
</I>><i> who is hosting a Mandriva mirror you will notice that educational
</I>><i> institutions (aka universities) are the majority.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Using MirrorBrain may or may not be an improvement (I can't judge
</I>><i> this) but IMHO it should not be a criterium to mirror or not.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Of course, if Switch wants it that way then it is up to the Mageia
</I>><i> sysadmins to decide what is the better way - implementing MirrorBrain
</I>><i> to please Switch or not implement it and forget about Switch - not
</I>><i> speaking about other advantages/disadvantages which may come with
</I>><i> Mirrorbrain.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > I have now arranged for a mirror to be set up at CUI - my old lab at the
</I>><i> > university of Geneva - I hope it will come up in time for alpha-2.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> That sound great, thanks.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > CUI is glad to help, but that is not a permanent solution - CUI normally
</I>><i> > does not provide this kind of service - permanent mirroring services
</I>><i> > should be provided by Switch as soon as a stable Mageia release becomes
</I>><i> > available. I will pursue the discussion with Switch.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Ie, not permanent, do you know how and why this would stop ?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > Talking to people at Switch brought up some facts which Mandriva should
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > be aware of:
</I>><i> > - There is a heritage of bad experience that has been made with
</I>><i> > Mandriva. - It is not the first time that I hear the argument Mageia =
</I>><i> > Mandriva
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > = forgetit.
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > - Mageia happens at present to be perceived as "just another one of
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > those distros that appear and disappear to oblivion" (maybe with a
</I>><i> > component of unfriendlyness towards Linux).
</I>><i>
</I>><i> IMHO, our best bet for such case is to wait, so people can make their
</I>><i> minds and reconsider their position. I am not sure that trying to push
</I>><i> now is good. It take time to recover trust and make people forget where
</I>><i> do we come from.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Our problem is that if we say "we are a mandriva fork", people think of
</I>><i> their bad experiences. If we don't, we appear as just yet another
</I>><i> distro.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So maybe it would be better to engage first with people that do not have
</I>><i> negative experience with Mandriva rather than trying to convince people
</I>><i> who did have ?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > By the way, at my university there was a similar experience: Mandriva
</I>><i> > was part of the officially supported infrastructure (mirror,
</I>><i> > consultancy), with fees paid to Mandriva - that broke in dysharmony due
</I>><i> > to bad administrative response from Mandriva, leaving quite some ill
</I>><i> > feeling. Sorry if I wade through these negative arguments, but these
</I>><i> > beyond-the-enthusiast-user spotlights count.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Well, we should make clear to people that we started the project for the
</I>><i> same reasons that they broke from Mandriva, and that we are aware of the
</I>><i> problems. But IMHO, we should not try too hard to convince them to help
</I>><i> us, just say that we agree with them. The rest will come by itself.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > I think that, when the stable release approaches, a small campaign to
</I>><i> > rectify these prejudices would be an excellent thing.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> That sound like a delicate task ( for the aforementioned reasons of
</I>><i> PR ). How would you start ?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > Talking with the people at Switch who maintain the Switch mirroring
</I>><i> > service, there were also some concrete and technical arguments - I
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > quote, translating from German:
</I>><i> > "the communication with the mirror sites at Mandriva had already been
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > minimal, compared with other distros: announcing releases, checking the
</I>><i> > availability at the mirrors (QA), etc" (which is a mere quote, dont ask
</I>><i> > me to interpret).
</I>><i> >
</I>><i> > Switch is reluctant to maintain a mirror at "assembly language level"
</I>><i> > ("just run rsync every 2 hours"), they would prefer solutions using
</I>><i> > something like MirrorBrain - but probably Mandriva experiences are part
</I>><i> > of the background to this argument.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Well, what do they need more precisely ?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> We understand well that they do not want to micromanage the mirror ( I
</I>><i> think no one does ), but then they can for sure understand that we
</I>><i> cannot adapt to everybody too on our side ( ie, another kind of micro
</I>><i> management ).
</I>><i>
</I>><i> And for mirrorbrain, I do not see how this relate to rsync, as the
</I>><i> software is used on distro side to distribute mirrors lists, if I
</I>><i> understand well. Rsync is still used to mirror around.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> If I remember, the problem of switch was "there is not enough users to
</I>><i> justify the mirroring" ( as you explained before ), and I do not think
</I>><i> this will be solved until one or two years, nor that mirrorbrain will
</I>><i> produce more users by magic.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So maybe we should just wait to be credible when asking something to
</I>><i> them and be honest about that ?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > At present, putting a mirror on a univeristy site puts it into an
</I>><i> > environment which is in good match to the straightforward rsync approach
</I>><i> > - correct for the alpha period of Mageia.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Given the high number of university for all others distributions, I
</I>><i> think this is a good match for most of them :)
</I>><i>
</I>><i> > But I think that on the long-run there are lessons to be learned from
</I>><i> > the discussion with Switch - mirrors for a stable Mageia should be
</I>><i> > preferably hosted at professionally run mirror sites (who make the kind
</I>><i> > of consideration I quoted above), university solutions should come as
</I>><i> > additional icing. In case of a second round of discussion on how to
</I>><i> > organise Mageia mirrors, it might be a good idea to have that discussion
</I>><i> > with some participation from the mirror sites.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I do not understand what you mean by "professionally run mirror". I
</I>><i> think this doesn't mean what you want it to mean.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Switch.ch core "business" is not to run mirrors, this is to sell
</I>><i> connectivity ( to swiss schools ). The core "business" of a university
</I>><i> is not to host mirrors, but researchers and students.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> From my point of view, there is 2 motivations ( that can be
</I>><i> overlapping ):
</I>><i> - people who run mirrors to help free software
</I>><i> - people who run mirrors because this help them on various level
</I>><i>
</I>><i> A mirror can help to save bandwidth ( for example, free.fr is a french
</I>><i> provider, all linux user will likely go on their mirror as this is
</I>><i> faster ), or to leverage this for peering/trafic negotiation ( see
</I>><i> <A HREF="http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2008/09/peering-and-transit.ars">http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2008/09/peering-and-transit.ars</A> , I
</I>><i> also recommend to see <A HREF="http://www.blogg.ch/uploads/peering-playbook.pdf">http://www.blogg.ch/uploads/peering-playbook.pdf</A> ,
</I>><i> given at the end of the article ).
</I>><i>
</I>><i> I think most universities does this to help free software, and because
</I>><i> they use internally. I think most volunteer-run mirrors, like the one of
</I>><i> Wobo fall in this category too.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> On the contrary, I suppose that most operators ( like switch to some
</I>><i> extend, but for free.fr, belgacom, etc ) does this for peering/trafic
</I>><i> reasons, and that mean they need to have enough traffic for this to be
</I>><i> useful for them, and enough users to justify the need. For now, I do not
</I>><i> think we are in a position to be interesting to this kind of mirrors.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> So what we could do is to ask for some metrics so we could now when we
</I>><i> will be able to reach a agreement, and try to have a multiple step
</I>><i> plan :
</I>><i> - first, we try to engage some universities ( or likely minded admins,
</I>><i> such as kernel.org, or others ), to cope with the load of the
</I>><i> distribution. Some being 4/5.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> - based on the feedback, we make sure that the documentation is correct,
</I>><i> that our procedure works, etc, etc.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> - once we have more and more people ( with metrics that have to be
</I>><i> found ), we try to find more mirrors.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> - once we are interesting enough to engage people in the connectivity
</I>><i> business, then we try to engage them ( likely not before one or two
</I>><i> years, maybe more ).
</I></PRE>
<!--endarticle-->
<HR>
<P><UL>
<!--threads-->
<LI>Previous message: <A HREF="003952.html">[Mageia-discuss] Looking for volunteer for french events
</A></li>
<LI>Next message: <A HREF="003947.html">[Mageia-discuss] Mageia-discuss Digest, Vol 7, Issue 20 Cooker Updates
</A></li>
<LI> <B>Messages sorted by:</B>
<a href="date.html#3946">[ date ]</a>
<a href="thread.html#3946">[ thread ]</a>
<a href="subject.html#3946">[ subject ]</a>
<a href="author.html#3946">[ author ]</a>
</LI>
</UL>
<hr>
<a href="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-discuss">More information about the Mageia-discuss
mailing list</a><br>
</body></html>
|
