[Mageia-discuss] Mageia logo proposals and selection

[andré]

Graham Lauder a écrit :
> On Thursday 14 Oct 2010 16:16:39 Tux99 wrote:
>    
>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2010, Graham Lauder wrote:
>>      
>>> It is a well known fact, that you cannot be all things to all people, to
>>> try to do that would end up being everything to noone.  I would prefer
>>> to be the best we can be to those who grow to love the brand.
>>>        
>> True, but you are forgetting to take into account the views of the
>> developers and packagers of Mageia. Without them there will be no Mageia
>> distro and since partecipation is on an unpaid volunteer basis, no
>> grand plan of shaping the distro from a marketing POV will succeed, if
>> it doesn't match the views of a large part of the devs and packagers.
>>      
> What has that got to do with it, there is always an internal component to the
> marketing, goes without saying
>    
That has everything to do with it.  Without contributors, Mageia does 
not exist.
As simple as that.
>    
>> This is not a criticism of your work (which I'm sure is well meant), but
>> it's a simple but crucial fact that you have to take into account.
>>      
> Damned by faint praise, and frankly I'm insulted, I suggest you read the Core
> Values statement which is up on the website now I think and which I and my
> team put together in deep consultation with the founders.
You may be making useful contributions, but your attitude towards others 
opinions does not make you welcome.  A little less arrogance would be 
appreciated.
By the way, the core values statement definitely needs refining, 
although it is a start.  In general, it is not surprising for a 
community-based open source distribution.  But not (yet) a work of art.
>>> All linux distributions at the moment have a less than 1.5% of the total
>>> market, however in the area where they have targeted a particular user
>>> set, Webservers, the market penetration is somewhere around the 65%
>>> mark.
>>>        
>> And that's because of the simple fact that Linux is the best technical
>> choice for that specific application and the decisionmakers are techies
>> who know that, it has nothing to do with marketing.
>> If anything it shows how marketing counts for nothing when techies and
>> experts make choices.
>>      
> I'm really trying to be restrained here but I think you should talk to RedHat
> and SuSE and so forth the companies that have driven most of that market and
> ask them if the did no marketing.
>    
You could at least have the courtesy to acknowlege the point.
Of course one can market on the basis of technical traits.  But that is 
not what you are proposing for Mageia.  At least not in your postings.
>>> How many users does Mandriva have worldwide, compare that to the number
>>> of computer users and you will see that the "one size fits all" does not
>>> equal significant market share.
>>>        
>> Mandriva is not a "one size fits all". It is the best Linux desktop
>> distro, but it's not the best choice as a server distro or for many
>> other uses.
>> The fact that it doesn't have more users is primarily due to the unfair
>> advantage that Windows has because it comes preinstalled on PCs.
>>      
> That is in fact patently untrue, I remember when Mandrake was trumpeting the
> fact that you could buy it preinstalled back about 9.0 I think, can't
> remember.
But only if you lived in France at the time.  Where market penetration 
is a bit more impressive.
However, virtually every computer comes with Microsoft preinstalled.  
(And the ms tax included.)  Being honest, you should acknowledge his 
point, which is clearly well founded.  But that would be the high road ...
>     MS spends 500 million a year on marketing, just to maintain that
> market share.
>    
And how much of that goes to campaign contributions and the like.  Or is 
that in addition to the 500 million ?
>>> OOo is targeted at office productivity people for obvious reasons,
>>> it's branding, colour design (Blue engenders a feeling of  reliability
>>> and efficiency) is aimed at that market group.  The Logo design  is
>>> aimed at a 30 to 45 age group, who are the decision makers in this group
>>> and to whom "Gulls" = Freedom.
>>>        
>> I very much doubt any OOo user chose it because of the logo, personally
>> I chose software on technical and usability merits, not logo design and
>> even all non-techies I know do the same.
>>      
> Oh for crying out loud is there a virus around here that imbues density...
Logical point.  Just who has the virus ?
>   OF
> COURSE they didn't choose because of the Logo, ye gods if you so much as had
> an inkling of the smallest piece of Marketing science you would see how
> nonsensical that statement is in terms of what we are talking about,
>    
So in other words, you agree that the logo is *not* important to why 
people chose software.  So why have you been trumpeting choosing the 
right logo for the target market ?
> especially when you say it as though you have a deep dark knowledge.  I don't
> really have time to do marketing 101 here and It's wasting my time when I
> could be doing the more useful things that the Founders have asked us to do.
>
> However:
> Marketing raises Brand awareness
> It connects a value with the product in the Consumers mind
> It connects a brand with people on an emotional level
>
> That's it, Getting people to use it is Sales which is a different beast
> altogether.
>
> We get people to see the brand, connect with the brand and then think about
> investigating it after that it's sales and engineering.
>
>    
>> Software is not a car or a handbag or a jacket, those are items where
>> looks and design counts a lot, with software the only design that counts
>> is UI interface design aimed at maximising usability.
>>      
>
> There is an old saying there are none so blind as those that will not see, and
>    
Yes indeed.  Have you looked in a mirror lately ?
> it doesn't matter how good the UI is, if no-one looks at it, it's the same for
> anything, you can make it as pretty and as usable as you want if nobody knows
> the brand exists then the only ones that will connect are the ones that
> stumble across it accidentally.
>
> Once more, this is wasting my time and there is no point in discussing this
> with a closed mind and entrenched attitudes.
>    
You could try to be a little less arrogant, a little more polite, and a 
little more coherent.  It might lower your blood pressure a bit.  And it 
certainly would be appreciated by the community.
> GL
>
>    
Sorry if you take offense at my comments, but frankly, your attitude 
towards other's opinions borders on intolerable.  And I strongly dislike 
seeing others abused for politely expressing entirely reasonable opinions.

- André