[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva]

[Per Øyvind Karlsen]

2010/9/21 Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b at googlemail.com>:
> 2010/9/21 Per Øyvind Karlsen <peroyvind at mandriva.org>:
>>
>> Oh well, I fear that this I with this post and the proposition might
>> just be flamed to death no matter how sane and justified I may find
>> this that others might consider a flamebait pipedream, or perhaps just
>> ignored which wouldn't surprise me that much either, but as there
>> might just be slight chance of constructive discussion taking place
>> and something of use to someone rather than a new round with
>> distribution of blame and angry voices, I take my chances in the
>> spirit of the greater good for everyone. :o)
>
> Hmm, now here we have our old Per Øyvind back, while his person was
> occupied by a demon lately?
Nah, he just rather felt the motivation and ideas about organization
being too different and in contrast, getting in the way of any mutual
goals and hopes, making them irrelevant. But I'd rather focus on
bringing these in line and of mutual interest as well now rather than
criticizing further. ;)
>
> What you propose makes the same sense as it made a couple of months
> ago, but the circumstances have changed a lot meanwhile. Yoou can't
> turn back the pages and read again like "Forget what was, here is a
> born again world". Now such a system as you suggest will depend not
> only on technical and economical questions as it was some time ago but
> also on how much trust you can still have / want to have in the
> current powers at Mandriva as well as how much motivation the makers
> of this fork can show to cooperate with a company which has treated
> them as seen in the previous months. This can only be answered by
> those people, not by any other.
Well, you and me both has managed to stay focused on and more care
around the community part despite getting canned from the company
since quite a while ago, and even both had our quarrels with some of
the community as well, independent of our employment, we're still
around. Personally I'd feel rather hypocritical otherwise as any
claims and beliefs of mine about Mandriva Linux being a community
distribution wouldn't be consistent with letting my professional
relations interfer with community involvement. I'd experience it as if
I were setting myself and my own personal feelings towards the
employer in that context, especially if imposing it on the community
and allow for it to dictate their direction..

I also feel that the claim about all talents and core developers of
the distribution being quite unfair to those people employed at
Conectiva, which AFAIK still has more people despite all it's previous
departures (which to my understanding most of likely wouldn't have
left either under the current situation where remaining staff chose to
stay) assigned to work on the community distribution than Edge-IT had
when liquidated. This kinda suggests a notion of the whole
distribution and anything of importance revolves around these
relatively few people at Edge-IT, and that the staff at Conectiva,
despite being made up of more people, they're less important.. Same
can be said for community contributors..

So, is this the case? If it's not, then there shouldn't be anything in
the way of continuing involvement in the community and help improve it
and setting up a community organization together with and around it,
after all, we're grownups and should know better than taking out our
grudges on others..
I don't really like implying such and feel uncomfortable about raising
the questions, but there's several details concerning this that raises
the question on where you're actually acting in the community's best
interest or not, if your intentions really are, then I urge you to
reconsider participate in this attempt on establishing a dialogue..

Certainly there can be other technical differences and desires
motivating the fork as well, making it more desirable for both parties
and allowing for them different focus and priorities without being at
conflict, but this doesn't have to mean that a split has to happen in
the community nor that we cannot work together on creating an
organization together and collaborate rather than burning bridges and
creating grounds for controversy and hostility. As the interest and
desires expressed by Matthew and Unity Linux, and their efforts all
along has shown, there is room for diversity and different focus while
at the same time actively working on improving relations and how to
better complement eachother.
As there's obviously interest for these things in both the Unity and
Mandriva community, why wouldn't there be so in the Mageia community?
If there's not, it wouldn't seem very professional of you, and
certainly not community friendly nor in the community's best interest,
would it?
The official news and strategy announced by Mandriva certainly doesn't
seem to  rumours on bad intentions threatening the community or the
distribution's future either, so that shouldn't be the concern
either...
>
> And of course it depends on how the powers at Mandriva (I do not mean
> Laprevote but rather his peers) will see such an obligation, which it
> will be for them. Would they see it as a necessary move, I mean
> necessary for their plans, not ours? As we do not know their plans we
> can't even speculate about that. I remember an investor talking to a
> former member of the Mandriva board, advising him to get rid of the
> enduser community because they only keep the company away from
> important work. I don't say that all investors think like that, but
> it's a good example.
Then I guess we should be happy that investor is no longer on the board. ;)
But certainly with regards to the company and related to the changes
in it's management, verifying their current position on the matter and
ensure their actual interest would certainly be useful before assuming
or expecting anything. If we have it and a good dialogue is
established, then much can be done from there.
>
> Of course, a Mandriva company which really means to carry out what
> Laprevote mentioned in his motivation "news", a Mandriva company which
> starts being communicative and transparent where it is possible, a
> Mandriva company which starts doing what it always claimed to be their
> commitment ("we are committed to the community"), this could be a good
> partner, /me thinks, day dreaming.
Yupp, and we can only find out by giving the chance and try contribute
to this ourself, it's a two-way street after all.. :)
> But as I wrote: I have no voice in this anyway.
Yupp, but we can at least hope to influence in the best interest, for
Mageia I personally didn't really have any real knowledge of before
after it's announcement, so I'm not expecting to even have much of a
voice in by myself, yet I'm hoping logic, reason and mutual benefits
and goals will come out winning in the end.. :)
>
> BTW: I thought the chief in hugs was François Bancilhon? :)
Well, I'm his secret twin, and as he weren't granted this overwhelming
responsibility at the first assembly meeting, he has to share the
duties with me, tipsy or not. ;)

--
Hugziez&kizzez,
Your BFF <3
Per Øyvind