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<H1>[Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console</H1>
<B>Wolfgang Bornath</B>
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TITLE="[Mageia-dev] Minimum install of cauldron don't start console">molch.b at googlemail.com
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<I>Tue Mar 6 19:45:40 CET 2012</I>
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<PRE>2012/3/6 Colin Guthrie <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia at colin.guthr.ie</A>>:
><i> 'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 17:57 did gyre and gimble:
</I>>><i> 2012/3/6 Colin Guthrie <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">mageia at colin.guthr.ie</A>>:
</I>>>><i> 'Twas brillig, and Wolfgang Bornath at 06/03/12 16:56 did gyre and gimble:
</I>>>>><i> 2012/3/6 Frank Griffin <<A HREF="https://www.mageia.org/mailman/listinfo/mageia-dev">ftg at roadrunner.com</A>>:
</I>>>>>><i> On 03/06/2012 11:22 AM, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
</I>>>>>>><i>
</I>>>>>>><i> If you want to address the novice user, what do you think makes support in
</I>>>>>>><i> case of a failing x server easier for the helper AND the novice user, a
</I>>>>>>><i> black screen, a screen without a prompt but with a hanging list of messages
</I>>>>>>><i> instead - or a login prompt from where he can be directed to a solution (or
</I>>>>>>><i> given instructions to provide more information)?
</I>>>>>><i>
</I>>>>>><i>
</I>>>>>><i> Probably a better solution, if you know that X is supposed to come up but
</I>>>>>><i> isn't, is to automatically log him in as some new ID whose shell is a script
</I>>>>>><i> something like the rescue console script.  The first thing it does is su him
</I>>>>>><i> to prompt for the root password, and then presents a character-based dialog
</I>>>>>><i> explaining his options, offering to run XFdrake, maybe running rpm/urpmi to
</I>>>>>><i> see if all needed packages are installed, and giving him to option to exit
</I>>>>>><i> to a real shell if he wants.
</I>>>>><i>
</I>>>>><i> Yes, that would be the next step on the road to user-friendly desaster
</I>>>>><i> management.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> Well, that's my whole point!!!
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>>><i> As long as we do not have this a login prompt is better than nothing.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> So I should spend my time doing this, only to undo it later for a
</I>>>><i> different solution?
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to waste time on this until it's decided
</I>>>><i> that this is the all we're going to do and what we'll ship.
</I>>>><i>
</I>>>><i> As far as things stand I see it as tangential to what I'd like to
</I>>>><i> achieve so I'd rather spend what limited time I have working on that
</I>>>><i> than something that could ultimately be thrown away later.
</I>>><i>
</I>>><i> Ah, ok, I understand your point now.
</I>>><i> The big question is: What is the time span we are talking about here?
</I>>><i> A week, month? Would you think you can achieve this better solution
</I>>><i> until Mageia 2 RC?
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Perhaps by beta2, but more likely by RC. I'll certainly make sure that
</I>><i> for beta2 a minimal install will properly present itself with
</I>><i> multi-user.target by default such that a getty will be shown on tty1 (as
</I>><i> already outlined, the getty on tty1 is only suppressed when there is
</I>><i> supposed to be a graphical login - and only a problem when that fails!).
</I>><i>
</I>>><i> If so, I am totally ok with that. If you think it
</I>>><i> will take longer than that, I do not think we can let this issue leave
</I>>><i> hanging in the air when we approach Mageia 2 final, wasted work or
</I>>><i> not.
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Yeah. I would agree there has to be a limit. I'd say RC2 should be that
</I>><i> limit. If I've not found a better way of doing things by then, I'll do
</I>><i> whatever is needed to make a getty appear...
</I>><i>
</I>><i> [Just to explain further, displaying a tty on failure is tricky due to
</I>><i> the complex interplay of different and conflicting configurations. I
</I>><i> *could* just run agetty manually at the end of the /etc/X11/prefdm
</I>><i> script, but then this then this would be considered by systemd as being
</I>><i> part of the prefdm service and thus if you login and restart prefdm
</I>><i> (which might be common) it would first of all kill the getty itself as
</I>><i> part of the "stopping" procedure! Now if it fails the user would be
</I>><i> dumped back at a login prompt again... not really very user friendly!
</I>><i> Hence, to solve this properly it would really be a matter of changing
</I>><i> the current target (aka runlevel) from default.target (which will be an
</I>><i> alias for graphical.target) to multi-user.target, but this may have
</I>><i> other consequences. I think this latter solution (changing target) is
</I>><i> the correct solution, but it really needs to be played out and tested
</I>><i> thoroughly. I'm also not sure what consequences there are (if any) of
</I>><i> running a command to change the target while running a specific service.
</I>><i> I think all will be fine, but all the same I'd need to investigate. And
</I>><i> after all that of course, we're supposed to still support sysvinit too
</I>><i> so we I'll have to at least look into things mostly working there (I
</I>><i> won't aim for sysvinit to be fully quirk free as it is clearly on the
</I>><i> way out and thus (being realistic) won't get as much time dedicated to
</I>><i> it). So it's not just a five or ten minute job!]
</I>><i>
</I>><i> Col
</I>
The force be with you, it will !
--
wobo
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