From 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Nicolas Vigier Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:46:12 +0000 Subject: Add zarb MLs html archives --- .../20110521/bbc34b05/attachment-0001.html | 72 ++++++++++++++++++++++ .../attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment.html | 72 ++++++++++++++++++++++ 2 files changed, 144 insertions(+) create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment-0001.html create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment.html (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05') diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..636f0048a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ +There is also a +script called "tuningdrake" developed from http://blogdrake.net/ that +the user could install a lot of non-free stuffs like sun java, adobe acrobat, +etc.  It works on mageia with that code
urpmi ftp://ftp.blogdrake.net/mandriva/2010.0/free/noarch/Tuningdrake-1.0.3-1bdk2010.0.noarch.rpm

+


You can read about it from mandriva Brazil wiki at http://docs.mandriva-br.org/mandriva/utilidades/tuningdrake#instalando_o_tuningdrake

+


cheers.


2011/5/21 Michael scherer <misc@zarb.org>
+
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 04:59:43PM -0500, Dale Huckeby wrote:
+> On Sat, 21 May 2011, Ahmad Samir wrote:
+>
+> >On 21 May 2011 21:46, Renaud (Ron) Olgiati
+> ><renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> wrote:
+> >>Will there be some such thing in place when Mageia is finally launched ?
+> >>
+> >
+> >No, simply because there's no need for a tool like that; easyurpmi was
+> >mainly used by Mandriva users to add the PLF repos, in Mageia PLF is
+> >replaced by the Tainted repo, which is added (but disabled) by
+> >default.
+>
+> Simply no need? Maybe I'm misreading you or missing something but this comes
+> across as really arrogant in presuming what others (not you!) do or don't need,
+> and how and why people have "mainly" used easyurpmi in the past. How do you
+> know? Was there a poll that I didn't get included in? I've always found
+> easyurpmi very convenient and not just for plf. I guess I didn't realize how
+> atypical I was.
+
+
Easyurpmi, as I said in the past, suffer from various problems :
+
+- it is centralized. It is where people fighted to get included or not. Every
+group in the past forked ( some without any attribution ) the software to be
+listed as repository for their version, because the original maintainer refused
+to list every possible variations of every random rpm repositories. Despites having wrote
+docs on .urpmi-media file on the wiki, people prefered to reuse easyurpmi out of
+some form of cargo culting ( until easyurpmi decided to adopt the system ).
+
+This caused some frictions in the community, and some divisions due to X instances of the software.
+
+- the code could have been much better. Olivier wrote it and he was not a php coder, and
+neither is Phillipe, the current maintainer. I think that the translation system is
+primitive and prone to problem. No one seemed to be motivated to rewrite, despites
+people fixing various problem.
+
+- the core of the system was still "here is a website that a new user cannot find by
+itself, that will give command that he doesn't understand, and that he need to type as root,
+after asking question that didn't made much sense for him". That's bad on many levels :
+ - difficult to find for a new user.
+ - asking to type command as root first, and later "click on a link in your browser and type after your
+admin password", which is IMHO quite bad from giving wrong habits to people.
+ - asking lots of questions, ( fixed later by using a simplified mode, that use rpmdrake or
+that fail silently )
+
+There is also some issue like "it requires a web browser" ( which is highly problematic when you
+are in a datacenter, setting up a server ). And "it doesn't use ssl" ( which is rather bad for a site that give you
+basically software sources ). This one could be fixed, but that's quite curious that no one
+thought of it before. Maybe people do not care about security, and about the content of a file that end
+to be read by a software running as root.
+
+The discoverability issues still exist and could not be fixed because of the nature of PLF/Mandriva.
+The bad habits given to users is a direct consequence of the way it work. The power struggle
+part too is inherent to the system, and this would become worst if there is a official instance
+on Mageia servers.
+
+Since the discoverability issue should be fixed by simply having tainted disabled by default and maybe
+some popup whatever to enable it, I see no reason to suffer from the others problems (
+bad habits, power struggle ). People can install a clone of easyurpmi if they want, but I will
+oppose on having it on our servers, on having anything like this labelled as official, and
+would recommend to people to not deploy it.
+
+
+--
+Michael Scherer
+

diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..636f0048a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/attachments/20110521/bbc34b05/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ +There is also a +script called "tuningdrake" developed from http://blogdrake.net/ that +the user could install a lot of non-free stuffs like sun java, adobe acrobat, +etc.  It works on mageia with that code
urpmi ftp://ftp.blogdrake.net/mandriva/2010.0/free/noarch/Tuningdrake-1.0.3-1bdk2010.0.noarch.rpm

+


You can read about it from mandriva Brazil wiki at http://docs.mandriva-br.org/mandriva/utilidades/tuningdrake#instalando_o_tuningdrake

+


cheers.


2011/5/21 Michael scherer <misc@zarb.org>
+
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 04:59:43PM -0500, Dale Huckeby wrote:
+> On Sat, 21 May 2011, Ahmad Samir wrote:
+>
+> >On 21 May 2011 21:46, Renaud (Ron) Olgiati
+> ><renaud@olgiati-in-paraguay.org> wrote:
+> >>Will there be some such thing in place when Mageia is finally launched ?
+> >>
+> >
+> >No, simply because there's no need for a tool like that; easyurpmi was
+> >mainly used by Mandriva users to add the PLF repos, in Mageia PLF is
+> >replaced by the Tainted repo, which is added (but disabled) by
+> >default.
+>
+> Simply no need? Maybe I'm misreading you or missing something but this comes
+> across as really arrogant in presuming what others (not you!) do or don't need,
+> and how and why people have "mainly" used easyurpmi in the past. How do you
+> know? Was there a poll that I didn't get included in? I've always found
+> easyurpmi very convenient and not just for plf. I guess I didn't realize how
+> atypical I was.
+
+
Easyurpmi, as I said in the past, suffer from various problems :
+
+- it is centralized. It is where people fighted to get included or not. Every
+group in the past forked ( some without any attribution ) the software to be
+listed as repository for their version, because the original maintainer refused
+to list every possible variations of every random rpm repositories. Despites having wrote
+docs on .urpmi-media file on the wiki, people prefered to reuse easyurpmi out of
+some form of cargo culting ( until easyurpmi decided to adopt the system ).
+
+This caused some frictions in the community, and some divisions due to X instances of the software.
+
+- the code could have been much better. Olivier wrote it and he was not a php coder, and
+neither is Phillipe, the current maintainer. I think that the translation system is
+primitive and prone to problem. No one seemed to be motivated to rewrite, despites
+people fixing various problem.
+
+- the core of the system was still "here is a website that a new user cannot find by
+itself, that will give command that he doesn't understand, and that he need to type as root,
+after asking question that didn't made much sense for him". That's bad on many levels :
+ - difficult to find for a new user.
+ - asking to type command as root first, and later "click on a link in your browser and type after your
+admin password", which is IMHO quite bad from giving wrong habits to people.
+ - asking lots of questions, ( fixed later by using a simplified mode, that use rpmdrake or
+that fail silently )
+
+There is also some issue like "it requires a web browser" ( which is highly problematic when you
+are in a datacenter, setting up a server ). And "it doesn't use ssl" ( which is rather bad for a site that give you
+basically software sources ). This one could be fixed, but that's quite curious that no one
+thought of it before. Maybe people do not care about security, and about the content of a file that end
+to be read by a software running as root.
+
+The discoverability issues still exist and could not be fixed because of the nature of PLF/Mandriva.
+The bad habits given to users is a direct consequence of the way it work. The power struggle
+part too is inherent to the system, and this would become worst if there is a official instance
+on Mageia servers.
+
+Since the discoverability issue should be fixed by simply having tainted disabled by default and maybe
+some popup whatever to enable it, I see no reason to suffer from the others problems (
+bad habits, power struggle ). People can install a clone of easyurpmi if they want, but I will
+oppose on having it on our servers, on having anything like this labelled as official, and
+would recommend to people to not deploy it.
+
+
+--
+Michael Scherer
+

-- cgit v1.2.1