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[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ George J. Walsh + gjwalsh at dscvcp.org +
+ Mon Nov 22 00:20:14 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
On Sun, 2010-11-21 at 15:09 -0500, Hoyt Duff wrote:
+> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 2:45 PM, George J. Walsh <gjwalsh at dscvcp.org> wrote:
+> > You bet .... the second of your 2 'faves' impressed me at first sight
+> > with its clean, simple freshness and its suggestion of 'action' and even
+> > problem or puzzle resolution.
+> >
+> 
+> http://www.flickr.com/photos/54240048@N08/5013673327/
+> 
+> Looks like Yin-Yang symbol. Copyright/cultural/"freshness" issues?
+> 
+> http://0.tqn.com/d/taoism/1/0/0/-/-/-/yinYang.gif
+> 
+> 
+
+Well, Hoyt, everything man does is derived from something done by
+another. I didn't think of your yin-yang but I did see a similarity of
+corporate graphics for natural gas entities. Nonetheless, this
+submission continues to hold appeal for me.
+
+George
+
+
+
+-- 
+"All that is impossible remains to be accomplished."  - Jonathan Franzen
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003089.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003089.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e04e130dd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003089.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 02:35:59 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Dale Huckeby a écrit :
+>
+> On Thu, 18 Nov 2010, Hoyt Duff wrote:
+>
+>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Wayne Sallee <Wayne at waynesallee.com> 
+>> wrote:
+>>> Hoyt Duff wrote on 11/18/2010 02:19 PM:
+>>>>
+>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/54167983@N08/5011126293/
+>>>>
+>>>> Sphere would be ideal candidate for a world globe.
+>>>>
+>>>>
+>>>
+>>> I like the idea of of the world idea. Mageia is for everyone around the
+>>> world, and since it is a community rather than a business, it has a 
+>>> bigger
+>>> interest in the needs of everyone, and not just meeting some small 
+>>> niche,
+>>> but meets peoples needs on a global aspect.
+>>>
+>>> Maybe the above logo can be make to look more like the earth. And 
+>>> the part
+>>> that looks like a flame be make to look more like Mageia bringing 
+>>> the world
+>>> together.
+>>>
+>> That could be accomplished by outlining the "flame" in dark blue or 
+>> black.
+>
+> I'd rather the flame not be outlined at all but look like an actual 
+> flame,
+> indistinct at the edges, rising from a crystal ball. With the stylized,
+> bounded flame it looks rinky dink, toylike, and sharpening the 
+> boundedness
+> only exacerbates the problem. The visual elements of a logo don't *have*
+> to literal-mindedly combine to spell out a meaning. At least, perusing 
+> the
+> submissions, I don't see anything as ugly as SUSE's (gecko?).
+>
+> Dale Huckeby
+
+Of course !
+A crystal ball would inspire trust in a Linux operating system.
+Somehow, I'm not quite sure that most potential users would trust 
+"magic" for serious tools that should always work.
+Did someone say "rinky dink, toylike" ?
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003090.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003090.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..1bb5d003f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003090.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Dale Huckeby + spock at evansville.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 03:44:51 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010, andre999 wrote:
+
+> Dale Huckeby a écrit :
+>> 
+>> On Thu, 18 Nov 2010, Hoyt Duff wrote:
+>> 
+>>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Wayne Sallee <Wayne at waynesallee.com> 
+>>> wrote:
+>>>> Hoyt Duff wrote on 11/18/2010 02:19 PM:
+>>>>> 
+>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/54167983@N08/5011126293/
+>>>>> 
+>>>>> Sphere would be ideal candidate for a world globe.
+>>>>> 
+>>>>> 
+>>>> 
+>>>> I like the idea of of the world idea. Mageia is for everyone around the
+>>>> world, and since it is a community rather than a business, it has a 
+>>>> bigger
+>>>> interest in the needs of everyone, and not just meeting some small niche,
+>>>> but meets peoples needs on a global aspect.
+>>>> 
+>>>> Maybe the above logo can be make to look more like the earth. And the 
+>>>> part
+>>>> that looks like a flame be make to look more like Mageia bringing the 
+>>>> world
+>>>> together.
+>>>> 
+>>> That could be accomplished by outlining the "flame" in dark blue or black.
+>> 
+>> I'd rather the flame not be outlined at all but look like an actual flame,
+>> indistinct at the edges, rising from a crystal ball. With the stylized,
+>> bounded flame it looks rinky dink, toylike, and sharpening the boundedness
+>> only exacerbates the problem. The visual elements of a logo don't *have*
+>> to literal-mindedly combine to spell out a meaning. At least, perusing the
+>> submissions, I don't see anything as ugly as SUSE's (gecko?).
+>> 
+>> Dale Huckeby
+>
+> Of course !
+> A crystal ball would inspire trust in a Linux operating system.
+> Somehow, I'm not quite sure that most potential users would trust "magic" for 
+> serious tools that should always work.
+> Did someone say "rinky dink, toylike" ?
+
+Personally, I would just like for it to be eye-catching and look nice.
+I'd be pretty shallow and gullible if I trusted *or* distrusted Mageia
+due to the shape of its logo rather than personal experience or word
+of mouth.  If people perceive Mageia as trustworthy its logo will evoke
+that judgment because it's associated with Mageia, not because it's the
+source of the judgment.
+
+Dale Huckeby
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003091.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003091.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..14388a385 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003091.html @@ -0,0 +1,148 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andréb + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 04:32:04 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Marc Paré a écrit :
+>
+> Le 2010-11-18 04:22, Romain d'Alverny a écrit :
+>> Hi everyone,
+>>
+>> so, logo proposals deadline was past week, Monday Nov. 9th. Proposals
+>> were sent to http://www.flickr.com/groups/mageia-art/pool/ (you may
+>> need to be logged in Flickr to actually see all proposals).
+>>
+>> First, on behalf of the board, let me thank all artists who invested
+>> in this and published a proposal. 113 posters, for 429 posts. There
+>> have been lots of different ideas, some matching the guidelines
+>> (http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=artguide#logo_design_guidelines),
+>> some not matching. So again, thank you to all, a lot, for your ideas
+>> and your work.
+>
+> Yes, a heartfelt congratulations to all of those who contributed. Very 
+> much appreciated.
+>
+> My four picks (in order of preference) and reasons are:
+>
+> 1. http://www.flickr.com/photos/54316230@N06/5141934927/
+>
+> -- logo with the 4 elements earth, wind, water, fire. I like the 
+> concept that Mageia comes from these 4 elements of which we are all 
+> connected. The concept is recognisable by most people as it is taught 
+> early in most school systems. It also fits in with the "magic" of the 
+> brand. The placement of the word "Mageia" would have to be worked so 
+> that the logo is compact. I would prefer keeping the groups of 4 
+> elements in a square pattern with "Mageia" trailing on the right hand 
+> side. Perhaps the logo could be the 4 elements in a square pattern 
+> with the letter "M" glued to the right hand site so that the logo 
+> itself could stand alone without the Mageia word.
+Both Mageia to the right and the "M" attached are good improvements.  So 
+effectively either just "M" or "Mageia" to the right.
+>
+> 2.  http://www.flickr.com/photos/54316230@N06/5063070488/
+>
+> -- logo with the compass with the needle pointing to NE which is the 
+> "M" for Mageia. In French there is the saying: " ... perdu le nord." 
+> which means that someone has lost her/his direction or sanity / 
+> reasoning. But in this case Mageia has been found because the needle 
+> is pointing to the "M". I don't like the flame above the "I" of the 
+> "Mageia". I would like to see a version with giving "Mageia" word a 
+> gradient colour change from left (blue) to right (a colour from the 
+> branding palette). Just as an experiment. I think that the icon could 
+> easily stand on its own and people would eventually identify it with 
+> "Mageia". There is also a French band "Solus" that sings this title 
+> "Perdu le Nord" (http://vimeo.com/6878932)
+Good improvements, except maybe the idea of colour gradiant.  It seems 
+to me it would be better to try to simplify the image somewhat, which 
+would allow the logo to scale better.  For example, to point the needle 
+to "M" directly to NE, which would remove (hide) the pointers NE and SW.
+Also, the font is too "busy".  It would be better to use a sans-serif 
+font.  (Some do have a capital "I" with serifs for readability.)
+>
+> 3. http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigger-gg/5027064477/
+>
+> -- I can't say I like the font, but I do like the idea with the tail 
+> of the "M" of Mageia curling around the letter. If we could give this 
+> a little more style, I think the tail "M" logo would become recognisable.
+Like an "M" version of @ :)
+And with a readable font.
+>
+> 4. http://www.flickr.com/photos/42998910@N02/5008234829/
+> I like the idea of the orb that looks like it is either surfacing or 
+> plunging into the liquid matter. It looks more like it is surfacing 
+> from the liquid. I can't say that I like the angle or the font of 
+> "Mageia", but the idea could work if there was an attached slogan 
+> "Mageia Linux ... your orbit of knowledge." or something to help it 
+> stick. I wonder it the "Mageia" would look better placed at the top of 
+> the liquid waves in a quarter circle format (like the one on the image 
+> but angled the opposite way).
+Too magic for me.  But maybe if it showed the planet in orbit.
+Mageia on top, with a normal (and readable) font would be a big improvement.
+With the moon smiling at Mageia ?  Who knows ?
+
+You could always have whatever logo chosen (hopefully with Mageia in 
+it), with your slogan, on top of planet earth in orbit with the moon 
+looking on with a smile ...
+Great idea for a promotional cartoon.
+But I digress :)
+>
+> Cheers
+>
+> Marc
+
+my 2 cents :)
+
+- André
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003092.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003092.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4c16592e8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003092.html @@ -0,0 +1,80 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Mon Nov 22 04:41:06 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/11/22 Dale Huckeby <spock at evansville.net>:
+>
+> Personally, I would just like for it to be eye-catching and look nice.
+> I'd be pretty shallow and gullible if I trusted *or* distrusted Mageia
+> due to the shape of its logo rather than personal experience or word
+> of mouth.  If people perceive Mageia as trustworthy its logo will evoke
+> that judgment because it's associated with Mageia, not because it's the
+> source of the judgment.
+
++ 100
+
+We should understand one important point: Mageia will not be defined
+by the logo, rather the other way round.
+No matter how the logo looks like, if Mageia turns out to be good,
+people will attach the logo to something good. If Mageia turns out to
+be bad, the logo will stand for something bad in the individual user's
+view. It is not the logo which "sells", it is the still the product. I
+never heard anybody say that he bought a Mercedes because he likes the
+logo. People test Mageia and like it - next time they see the logo
+they remember that it stands for a product they experienced as a good
+product.
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003093.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003093.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..0702768f6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003093.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 04:48:47 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Jérôme Hénin a écrit :
+> On 21 November 2010 12:26, Cazzaniga-Sandro<cazzaniga.sandro at gmail.com>  wrote:
+>    
+>> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 11:39:01AM +0100, Marcello Anni wrote:
+>>      
+>>>> 2010/11/21 Morgan Leijström<fri at tribun.eu>:
+>>>>          
+>>>>> Den 2010-11-21 00:32:41 skrev Oliver Burger:
+>>>>>
+>>>>>            
+>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ofaurax/5127775007/ and all related ones
+>>>>>>              
+>>>>> This is my favourite.  Very simple, easy to recognize, not tied to name
+>>>>>            
+>> Very cool and beautiful, my favorite too!! :)
+>>      
+> "Cool" and "beautiful" are the subjective side of the question (I
+> happen to disagree, but this is merely a matter of taste).
+>
+> Still, I can't help but wonder: what does this logo say about Mageia?
+> The "cauldron with/without fire" sounds like a kind of insider's joke
+> to me. I doubt that it would help getting the Mageia message across to
+> a broad audience.
+>    
+
+Exactly my thoughts.  Let's save this image for the cauldron.
+
+- André
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003094.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003094.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6e3d61502 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003094.html @@ -0,0 +1,94 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 05:02:27 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Oliver Burger a écrit :
+> Jérôme Hénin<heninj at gmail.com>  schrieb am 2010-11-21
+>    
+>> Still, I can't help but wonder: what does this logo say about Mageia?
+>> The "cauldron with/without fire" sounds like a kind of insider's joke
+>> to me. I doubt that it would help getting the Mageia message across to
+>> a broad audience.
+>>      
+> What do all the others? What does the logo at the upper right of this page
+> say: http://www.deutsche-bank.de/index.htm
+> Nothing? But still, it's the biggest bank in Germany...
+>
+> A logo does not have to "say" anything. It has to be recognizable. And I do
+> think this one is!
+>
+> Oliver
+>    
+
+Well the cauldron logo is so simple that it is barely distinguishable 
+from a circle.  What we need is a distinctive logo that is easily 
+recognisable.
+Even if the cauldron is recognised as such, what is the image usually 
+associated with a cauldron, at least in Europe and North America ?
+Witchcraft.  Thus magic.
+So of course, potential users will be attracted by an operating system 
+which says,
+"with the right incantations, Mageia *should* work."
+Somehow, I don't think so.
+
+Don't forget, we must put ourselves in the shoes of those who might be 
+attacted to Mageia, not in the shoes of developers who are already 
+committed.
+
+my 2 cents :)
+
+- André
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003095.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003095.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e38dde976 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003095.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 05:20:04 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Hoyt Duff a écrit :
+> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 4:08 PM, Dale Huckeby<spock at evansville.net>  wrote:
+>    
+>>   What strikes you as simplicity
+>> strikes me as cartoonish.  I can see its appeal but it doesn't work for
+>> me.  I prefer a logo that's three-dimensional rather than an outline,
+>> but that's just my aesthetic taste.
+>>
+>>      
+> That has been my criticism of many of Mandrivas icons (the user icons
+> , for example): they look cartoonish and lack what the marketing types
+> refer to as "high touch". They would be fine in a distro targeted at
+> children, but not adults who consider themselves as cutting-edge.
+>
+>
+> As an aside, I don't care for the "Tux" logo either for the same
+> reason, but if you had to go with that style, I prefer someting with
+> an edge.
+>
+> http://www.decalsusa.com/images/badtz%20maru%20colors.GIF
+>
+> (off-topic, but I'm in an off-topic-ish mood).
+>    
+
+Hope you're not suggesting that for Mageia ...
+But it certainly does have an "edge" :)
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003096.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003096.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c3612ff19 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003096.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Mon Nov 22 05:20:21 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/11/22 andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>
+> Well the cauldron logo is so simple that it is barely distinguishable from a
+> circle.  What we need is a distinctive logo that is easily recognisable.
+> Even if the cauldron is recognised as such, what is the image usually
+> associated with a cauldron, at least in Europe and North America ?
+> Witchcraft.  Thus magic.
+> So of course, potential users will be attracted by an operating system which
+> says,
+> "with the right incantations, Mageia *should* work."
+
+No. The will be attracted by the operating system, not by the logo. If
+the operating system is good they will remember the logo as positive
+sign. This is more likely if the logo is easy to remember, no matter
+what it says. To the user it only says, "it's the sign of a product I
+like". To users who never tested the product it will mean nothing at
+all no matter what it says.
+
+Yes, we have all those principles what the logo should tell about
+Mageia. Doing that will not hurt but at the end of the day there is
+only one feature a logo must have: recognizability. It does not matter
+if the logo talks about a cauldron or just points to a restaurant
+selling duck soup, important is that users will remember it in
+relation to the operating system they just tested and liked. What
+meaning has the star on a Mercedes? Nobody knows but everybody can
+draw the logo in seconds and everybody knows that it resembles a good
+product (whether you like the cars or not).
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003097.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003097.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..fca530c10 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003097.html @@ -0,0 +1,112 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 05:25:26 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Thorsten van Lil a écrit :
+> Am Sonntag 21 November 2010, 14:47:59 schrieb Jérôme Hénin:
+>    
+>> On 21 November 2010 12:26, Cazzaniga-Sandro<cazzaniga.sandro at gmail.com>
+>>      
+> wrote:
+>    
+>>> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 11:39:01AM +0100, Marcello Anni wrote:
+>>>        
+>>>>> 2010/11/21 Morgan Leijström<fri at tribun.eu>:
+>>>>>            
+>>>>>> Den 2010-11-21 00:32:41 skrev Oliver Burger:
+>>>>>>              
+>>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ofaurax/5127775007/ and all related
+>>>>>>> ones
+>>>>>>>                
+>>>>>> This is my favourite.  Very simple, easy to recognize, not tied to
+>>>>>> name
+>>>>>>              
+>>> Very cool and beautiful, my favorite too!! :)
+>>>        
+>> "Cool" and "beautiful" are the subjective side of the question (I
+>> happen to disagree, but this is merely a matter of taste).
+>>
+>> Still, I can't help but wonder: what does this logo say about Mageia?
+>> The "cauldron with/without fire" sounds like a kind of insider's joke
+>> to me. I doubt that it would help getting the Mageia message across to
+>> a broad audience.
+>>      
+> Maybe you should take a look at the explanation of the author.
+>
+> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ofaurax/5119536676/
+>
+> For me the couldron is enough statement for Mageia (though magic).
+>
+> This logo has everything needed for a good logo (objective) ... as far as I
+> can say.
+>    
+Everything in the explanation make it an *excellent* logo/icon for the 
+*cauldron*.
+But not Mageia in general.
+It lacks a distinctive enough image.  Don't forget, we will not be, at 
+least for a long time, the biggest operating system in any country.
+> Regards,
+> Thorsten
+>    
+
+another 2 cents
+
+- André
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003098.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003098.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5372b8355 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003098.html @@ -0,0 +1,117 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 05:37:41 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Thorsten van Lil a écrit :
+> Am Sonntag 21 November 2010, 19:34:30 schrieb Liam R E Quin:
+>    
+>> On Sun, 2010-11-21 at 15:08 +0100, Thorsten van Lil wrote:
+>>      
+>>> Maybe you should take a look at the explanation of the author.
+>>>
+>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ofaurax/5119536676/
+>>>
+>>> For me the couldron is enough statement for Mageia (though magic).
+>>>        
+>> I thought it meant "laundry setting to boil whites".
+>>
+>> A logo that needs an explanation like that isn't good, but it
+>> might be a good foundation to build on.
+>>      
+> No, that is not a requirement for a logo.
+> The already mentioned logo of the "Deutsche Bank" has needed an explanation.
+> The meaning of the Ubuntu logo, which I think is one of the best logos so far,
+> wasn't clear to me the first few years.
+>
+> Many logos didn't have a meaning and are good at all.
+> Logos need to be simple, recognizable, scaleable and have to look good in
+> monochrome as well as in color.
+>
+> The marketing guys may want to add some points, which I don't think at.
+>
+> Just try to imagine the logo at the collar of a shirt or at the icon in the
+> adressbar of the webbrowser.
+>
+> Regards,
+> Thorsten
+>    
+
+I don't think you read what he said.
+what is the advantage of choosing a logo for which you have to explain 
+what it *doesn't* mean ?
+Most people won't bother.  They are turned off the first time, and after 
+that every time they see Mageia, they are already programmed to ignore it.
+If that is how you want to promote Mageia, at least you risk to belong 
+to a more exclusive club.  But I don't think that most behind Mageia 
+want that to happen.
+
+What we want is an attractive, distinctive logo, that will make people 
+think of Mageia in a positive sense.
+Which means we avoid negative connotations, such as magic. (-1 for the 
+cauldron symbol)
+We avoid logos too indistinct.  (-2 for the almost-circle cauldron symbol)
+We avoid logos that are not attractive in appearance.  (-3, in my view)
+
+So tell me : where are the positives - for the average potential user 
+not already committed to Mageia ?
+I'm listening ...
+
+- André
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003099.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003099.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6fe30c43a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003099.html @@ -0,0 +1,118 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 05:56:54 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> 2010/11/22 andre999<andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>    
+>> Well the cauldron logo is so simple that it is barely distinguishable from a
+>> circle.  What we need is a distinctive logo that is easily recognisable.
+>> Even if the cauldron is recognised as such, what is the image usually
+>> associated with a cauldron, at least in Europe and North America ?
+>> Witchcraft.  Thus magic.
+>> So of course, potential users will be attracted by an operating system which
+>> says,
+>> "with the right incantations, Mageia *should* work."
+>>      
+> No. The will be attracted by the operating system, not by the logo. If
+> the operating system is good they will remember the logo as positive
+> sign. This is more likely if the logo is easy to remember, no matter
+> what it says. To the user it only says, "it's the sign of a product I
+> like". To users who never tested the product it will mean nothing at
+> all no matter what it says.
+>    
+Wobo, you are missing the point.
+Once they have tried Mageia, and like it, the logo is irrelevant.
+But what will attract them ?
+It could be all sorts of things, but the least likely is a logo with 
+negative connotations (as "magic" for an operating system), or a logo so 
+indistinct as to not induce curiosity.
+
+I think the cauldron logo has the dubious advantage of both of these 
+factors.
+So although many other factors could attact potential users, such a logo 
+won't help.
+
+I would rather a logo that would.
+> Yes, we have all those principles what the logo should tell about
+> Mageia. Doing that will not hurt but at the end of the day there is
+> only one feature a logo must have: recognizability. It does not matter
+> if the logo talks about a cauldron or just points to a restaurant
+> selling duck soup, important is that users will remember it in
+> relation to the operating system they just tested and liked. What
+> meaning has the star on a Mercedes? Nobody knows but everybody can
+> draw the logo in seconds and everybody knows that it resembles a good
+> product (whether you like the cars or not).
+>    
+Ok, assuming that many potential users recognise this indistinct logo as 
+a cauldron.
+Do we also assume that the "magic" associated in popular folklore - at 
+least in Europe and the Americas - will attact such potential users ?
+Do you personally associate "magic" with reliability, ease of use ?
+The strength we hope to bring ?
+For myself, very much the contrary.
+
+We have to put ourselves in the shoes of potential users unfamiliar with 
+Mageia or Mandriva, and not in the shoes of developers or others already 
+committed to Mageia.
+
+So in choosing the logo, try pretending you have never heard of Mageia, 
+have never packaged an rpm, and never distributed a Linux ISO.
+
+another 2 cents :)
+
+- André
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003100.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003100.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..afa88843d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003100.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Mon Nov 22 05:57:17 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/11/22 andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>
+> So tell me : where are the positives - for the average potential user not
+> already committed to Mageia ?
+> I'm listening ...
+
+They are nowhere, in no logo at all (set aside logos which carry
+images of certain things like a car or a washing machine). The logo
+will only start having "positives" or "negatives" after the user has
+looked at what the logo stands for. If he thinks Mageia is positive
+than the logo will have a positive meaning for him. Again: it is not
+the logo which gives meaning to a product, it is the product which
+gives meaning to a logo.
+
+If it were the other way round Mercedes would have had to change their
+logo when the protest marches in the late 60ties started to show this
+(almost) same symbol. Who knows what Ubuntu's logo means? Would
+anybody have cared about the logo before he tested Ubuntu?
+
+I state that a logo only has a positive rating if 1st the product is
+positive and 2nd the logo is simpel enough to be remembered.
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003101.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003101.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c9ff71d2b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003101.html @@ -0,0 +1,74 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Mon Nov 22 06:05:54 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/11/22 andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>
+> So in choosing the logo, try pretending you have never heard of Mageia, have
+> never packaged an rpm, and never distributed a Linux ISO.
+
+In this case the very last thing I'd look at is the logo.
+I may look at the colors of a screenshot, I may look at the selection
+of useful applications, I may look at reports in magazines or
+websites, I may even look at the design of the cardboard box on the
+shelves. But the logo is the last thing I'd look at, no matter what
+kind of product I am looking for.
+I have no clue about chain-saws, never had one in my hands. Do you
+really think I'd look at logos for one second when I go shopping for
+such a tool? I'd be very dumb to judge anything by the logo!
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003102.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003102.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..86c6a67af --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003102.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Mon Nov 22 06:09:27 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/11/22 Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b at googlemail.com>:
+> 2010/11/22 andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>>
+>> So in choosing the logo, try pretending you have never heard of Mageia, have
+>> never packaged an rpm, and never distributed a Linux ISO.
+>
+> In this case the very last thing I'd look at is the logo.
+> I may look at the colors of a screenshot, I may look at the selection
+> of useful applications, I may look at reports in magazines or
+> websites, I may even look at the design of the cardboard box on the
+> shelves. But the logo is the last thing I'd look at, no matter what
+> kind of product I am looking for.
+> I have no clue about chain-saws, never had one in my hands. Do you
+> really think I'd look at logos for one second when I go shopping for
+> such a tool? I'd be very dumb to judge anything by the logo!
+>
+
+But I DO look for a logo once I found a product useful or good, I look
+for the logo to find news, reports, anything, about this product. Then
+it is very useful for me if the logo is simple enough to be remembered
+and recognized whenever I see it anywhere.
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003103.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003103.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..25d617939 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003103.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Hoyt Duff + hoytduff at gmail.com +
+ Mon Nov 22 07:20:37 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Wolfgang Bornath
+<molch.b at googlemail.com> wrote:
+> 2010/11/22 Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b at googlemail.com>:
+>> 2010/11/22 andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>>>
+>>> So in choosing the logo, try pretending you have never heard of Mageia, have
+>>> never packaged an rpm, and never distributed a Linux ISO.
+>>
+>> In this case the very last thing I'd look at is the logo.
+>> I may look at the colors of a screenshot, I may look at the selection
+>> of useful applications, I may look at reports in magazines or
+>> websites, I may even look at the design of the cardboard box on the
+>> shelves. But the logo is the last thing I'd look at, no matter what
+>> kind of product I am looking for.
+>> I have no clue about chain-saws, never had one in my hands. Do you
+>> really think I'd look at logos for one second when I go shopping for
+>> such a tool? I'd be very dumb to judge anything by the logo!
+>>
+>
+> But I DO look for a logo once I found a product useful or good, I look
+> for the logo to find news, reports, anything, about this product. Then
+> it is very useful for me if the logo is simple enough to be remembered
+> and recognized whenever I see it anywhere.
+>
+> --
+> wobo
+>
+
+Kinda agree.
+
+If the distro defines the logo, then any random piece of crap logo will do.
+
+If the (undefined, unestablished) logo defines the distro, then we are
+attracting users that are so superficial as to be useless as a target
+market.
+
+The logo should, I feel, be unlike other distro logos so as to be
+easily discernible from them.
+
+The logo may be abstract or obtuse or both or neither; it need not be
+symbolic of anything nor have any hidden meaning because it will, in
+time, come to be associated with Mageia and Mageia with it and all
+it's "hidden" and mysterious symbolic meaning will become forgotten
+(Remember the Kool Desktop Environment?). Let us not over-geek the
+process.
+
+So I suggest we are looking for something simple, unique, easy to
+identify in favicon sizes and look good in black-and-white as well as
+colour. So perhaps the logo overlords should sieve the candidates for
+that and ask the artists to re-submit in black-and-white to level the
+playing field. The more elaborate candidates could be developed as
+themes.
+
+-- 
+Hoyt
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003104.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003104.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f40217bd6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003104.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 07:24:02 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> 2010/11/22 andre999<andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>    
+>> So tell me : where are the positives - for the average potential user not
+>> already committed to Mageia ?
+>> I'm listening ...
+>>      
+> They are nowhere, in no logo at all (set aside logos which carry
+> images of certain things like a car or a washing machine). The logo
+> will only start having "positives" or "negatives" after the user has
+> looked at what the logo stands for. If he thinks Mageia is positive
+> than the logo will have a positive meaning for him. Again: it is not
+> the logo which gives meaning to a product, it is the product which
+> gives meaning to a logo.
+>
+> If it were the other way round Mercedes would have had to change their
+> logo when the protest marches in the late 60ties started to show this
+> (almost) same symbol. Who knows what Ubuntu's logo means? Would
+> anybody have cared about the logo before he tested Ubuntu?
+>
+> I state that a logo only has a positive rating if 1st the product is
+> positive and 2nd the logo is simpel enough to be remembered.
+>    
+
+Obviously we don't agree.
+The basic idea behind selecting the logo was to help present/promote Mageia.
+
+I don't know about you, but when I started getting interested in Linux 
+(already a programmer for many years), I ended up choosing Red Hat.  Why 
+?  I did a lot of reading.  Looking at what was available.  The 
+distinctive logos were a means of categorising the different distros 
+available at the time.  (I only remember Slackware as an alternative.)
+Eventually I tried RedHat. I liked it.  After that the logo was totally 
+irrelevant, as far as my using RedHat.
+Later, already familiar with Linux, the Mandriva logo interested me.  
+After a few years of interest, using the logo as a focus of info 
+available, I tried it.  I liked it.  And the logo became irrelevant, as 
+far as my using Mandriva.
+
+When I say interested me, it was a symbol to identify information on the 
+product, distinctive enough that I knew that the info was associated 
+with the product in question, but without negative connotations which 
+might make me decide prematurely that it wasn't something of interest.
+
+If someone is already committed to a product, what difference will a 
+logo make, it terms of their usage of the product ?
+
+ From your point of view, how is the logo important ?
+If you don't think it is important, why do you bother to debate it ?
+
+take care,
+
+- André
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003105.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003105.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3383c2e2e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003105.html @@ -0,0 +1,88 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Hoyt Duff + hoytduff at gmail.com +
+ Mon Nov 22 07:33:10 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 11:20 PM, andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net> wrote:
+>> Hoyt Duff a écrit :
+>>
+>> As an aside, I don't care for the "Tux" logo either for the same
+>> reason, but if you had to go with that style, I prefer something with
+>> an edge.
+>>
+>> http://www.decalsusa.com/images/badtz%20maru%20colors.GIF
+>>
+>> (off-topic, but I'm in an off-topic-ish mood).
+>>
+>
+> Hope you're not suggesting that for Mageia ...
+> But it certainly does have an "edge" :)
+>
+>
+
+I believe Badzt Maru would make an excellent icon/mascot for a Linux
+distro. His name means "wrong-correct" or X-O, an excellent choice for
+the type of discussions we've had on these lists.
+
+However, Badtz is  a copyrighted and licensed character of Sanrio.
+Perhaps they would grant a free license to a non-profit community
+organisation, and it wouldn't hurt to ask, but probably not viable.
+Copyright conflict is a Mandriva legacy Mageia could do without. 8)
+
+Here's a Wikipedia entry for the curious:
+http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sanrio_character
+
+
+-- 
+Hoyt
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003106.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003106.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9fa95ca5d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003106.html @@ -0,0 +1,149 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 07:54:58 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
Dale Huckeby a écrit :
+> On Sun, 21 Nov 2010, andre999 wrote:
+>
+>> Dale Huckeby a écrit :
+>>>
+>>> On Thu, 18 Nov 2010, Hoyt Duff wrote:
+>>>
+>>>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Wayne Sallee 
+>>>> <Wayne at waynesallee.com> wrote:
+>>>>> Hoyt Duff wrote on 11/18/2010 02:19 PM:
+>>>>>>
+>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/54167983@N08/5011126293/
+>>>>>>
+>>>>>> Sphere would be ideal candidate for a world globe.
+>>>>>>
+>>>>>>
+>>>>>
+>>>>> I like the idea of of the world idea. Mageia is for everyone 
+>>>>> around the
+>>>>> world, and since it is a community rather than a business, it has 
+>>>>> a bigger
+>>>>> interest in the needs of everyone, and not just meeting some small 
+>>>>> niche,
+>>>>> but meets peoples needs on a global aspect.
+>>>>>
+>>>>> Maybe the above logo can be make to look more like the earth. And 
+>>>>> the part
+>>>>> that looks like a flame be make to look more like Mageia bringing 
+>>>>> the world
+>>>>> together.
+>>>>>
+>>>> That could be accomplished by outlining the "flame" in dark blue or 
+>>>> black.
+>>>
+>>> I'd rather the flame not be outlined at all but look like an actual 
+>>> flame,
+>>> indistinct at the edges, rising from a crystal ball. With the stylized,
+>>> bounded flame it looks rinky dink, toylike, and sharpening the 
+>>> boundedness
+>>> only exacerbates the problem. The visual elements of a logo don't 
+>>> *have*
+>>> to literal-mindedly combine to spell out a meaning. At least, 
+>>> perusing the
+>>> submissions, I don't see anything as ugly as SUSE's (gecko?).
+>>>
+>>> Dale Huckeby
+>>
+>> Of course !
+>> A crystal ball would inspire trust in a Linux operating system.
+>> Somehow, I'm not quite sure that most potential users would trust 
+>> "magic" for serious tools that should always work.
+>> Did someone say "rinky dink, toylike" ?
+>
+> Personally, I would just like for it to be eye-catching and look nice.
+Definitely a plus.
+
+> I'd be pretty shallow and gullible if I trusted *or* distrusted Mageia
+> due to the shape of its logo rather than personal experience or word
+> of mouth.
+Others might say that you would have to be pretty shallow and gullible 
+if you base trust on word of mouth.
+You have to realise that there are mamy cultural reasons why people may 
+trust/mistrust, find interesting/uninteresting various products.
+Firstly, the logo in question is typical of a natural gas ad in North 
+America.
+Also used by companies selling associated appliances.
+So using such a logo would be negative in the sense of signalling 
+"uninteresting", *before* a potential user has tried Mageia.  At least 
+in North America.
+The magic theme would also have negative connotations for most potential 
+users in North America, largely based on historical abuses, and the 
+general disdain for "magic".  To most it means "not serious".
+
+When I say negative connotations, I mean that people will just turn off 
+and not read further.  They often won't even realise that Mageia is a 
+serious Linux distribution.
+And if they do but don't know what that means, that won't induce the 
+curiosity to find out.
+Which is why we need a logo that is interesting, but neutral in certain 
+important aspects.
+For North America that means *No magic* and *no natural gas*
+
+> If people perceive Mageia as trustworthy its logo will evoke
+> that judgment because it's associated with Mageia, not because it's the
+> source of the judgment.
+But would you really "trust" a complex product like an operating system 
+before trying it ?
+I wouldn't.  And I'm a programmer.
+>
+> Dale Huckeby
+
+another 2 cents :)
+
+- André
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-discuss +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003107.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003107.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b999c1b4e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003107.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Mon Nov 22 08:01:22 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
2010/11/22 andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net>:
+>
+> Obviously we don't agree.
+
+Yes, we do.
+
+> The basic idea behind selecting the logo was to help present/promote Mageia.
+
+Yes, that's right. But not like "Look at the fine logo, this
+distribution must be good!" more like "Look there, the Mageia logo,
+there must be people/news/information from Mageia or somebody who also
+uses it."
+
+> I don't know about you, but when I started getting interested in Linux
+> (already a programmer for many years), I ended up choosing Red Hat.
+
+Same as I. But you don't want to tell me that you chose it because of the logo?
+I chose DLD as first distribution. I don't remember the logo. I don't
+remember they even had one.
+
+> From your point of view, how is the logo important ?
+> If you don't think it is important, why do you bother to debate it ?
+
+I already answered that question above. And I told several times why I
+think a logo is important. We disagree in the way it is important.
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + +
+

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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003108.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003108.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..badde4d65 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003108.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ Maurice Batey + maurice at bcs.org.uk +
+ Mon Nov 22 17:00:28 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:38:22 +0100, Lawrence A Fossi wrote:
+
+> 2.http://www.flickr.com/photos/55329486@N03/5134846325/
+
+  Me too. The otehr one I really like is the one with a compass in it.
+
+-- 
+/\/\aurice 
+	
+
+
+ + + +
+

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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003122.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003122.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..dec898338 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-discuss/20101122/003122.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-discuss] Logo proposals discussion

+ François Jaouen + francois.jaouen at laposte.net +
+ Mon Nov 22 21:11:15 CET 2010 +

+
+ +
My choices are :
+
+1) http://www.flickr.com/photos/ofaurax/5127775007
+
+Simple and related to mageia name
+
+2) http://www.flickr.com/photos/54316230@N06/5081228522/
+
+Top left or bottom left. Simple, related to mageia name and a smart representation of the M letter.
+
+Other logos focusing on the M letter tend to make me think to Mac Donald, Olympique de Marseille, la Marque Jaune or Mozilla
+
+A big thanks to all the artists who shared their creation.
+
+Farf
+
+ + +
+

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