[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Re: Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva]

Wed Sep 22 11:02:29 CEST 2010

On 10/09/21 21:49 +0200, Per Øyvind Karlsen wrote:
+> > You will leave your newborn in the "hands" of the same company whose
+> > lack of direction caused this situation?
+> >
+> > Maybe I'm a "little" paranoid, but i think we should listen
+> > ex-employes / developers. They know the sh*t from the very inside.
+> Ah, yes, two ex-employees / developers which were actively involved
+> with the development of the distribution over so many years.. Uh, oh,
+> wait, no they weren't.
+> I'm questioning whether they actually grasp all of the work required
+> to put together a distribution. I also find it odd when I see
+> statements from them on IRC which seems to be in conflict with others
+> involved with this that they intend on going in a different direction
+> independent of Mandriva. With all the people being brought aboard with
+> Mageia from the Mandriva Linux community, I find it hard to believe
+> that there has been established a consensus about this with all of the
+> people involved and that they really want to do everything on their
+> own and not care about keeping relations or anything with what they've
+> been involved with on actual community basis and over longer times
+> than either of these two..
+
+since you were not part of the discussion*s*, what you believe doesn't
+really matter. i can tell you that there is a consensus to release a
+community distribution. in fact, it was more of a consensus: it was the
+stated goal around which the rest of the project was born.
+
+
+> Are you guys *really* planning on doing the whole distribution on your
+> own totally independent of Mandriva without any interest of
+> collaborating?
+
+yes. period.
+
+ 
+> To me, these responses of Romain and Nicolas seems to confirm all the
+> questions I raised earlier in this thread, suggesting that the fork
+> and their motivations are personal and not out of concern and care for
+> the community, despite these motivations officially given. I guess
+> there's a reason for why they avoided these critical questions raised
+> towards them, and rather chose to attack constructive attempts at
+> doing what's in the best interest of the community in stead.
+
+i am just a contributor, who was part of the discussions before the
+launch of mageia. i am not a former mandriva/edge-it employee, but yet i
+totally agree with the various opinions stated here: currently, mandriva
+(the society) has failed to properly communicate with the community.  we
+were never aware of what was going on, what were the plans, what were
+the goals, etc.
+
+please take that into account, and the frustration it created.
+
+now, do you really think that mandriva's ceo coming and saying "guys you
+are right, let's create something together" is to be taken seriously?
+
+so, for now, i think that mageia should start alone. it might be more
+difficult, but results will our owns, and what we'll manage to do from
+this situation. and if mandriva is really gueniously interested in a
+foundation, it will do whatever is needed to make sure mageia succeeds.
+in one year from now, we'll have a better view on what's going on, and
+if mandriva favors a real, independent community mentality (not to
+mention the fact that nerves will have settle).
+
+that is: we will judge mandriva for what it's doing, not it's saying.
+facts, not words.
+
+ 
+> But sure, I've only been actively involved with the development of
+> this *community* distribution and on several other levels for a decade
+> now, being amongst those involved for the longest time, while also
+> being an ex-employee myself, I've primarily been active through the
+> community independent of my employment nor imposing personal feelings
+> towards company on the community. And I can also truly claim that I
+> have an absolute full understanding of all the work an complexity
+> involved in putting together the whole distribution and put tons of
+> more hours into this on my sparetime and out of interest for
+> contributing to the community, making me quite aware of the fact that
+> you'll have a pretty darn hard time doing this and organizing the
+> whole thing on your own.
+
+good for you.
+
+but you know, this is a fork - we announced *our* decision, and people
+join *if*they*want*. i did not handle a gun over people to force them to
+come on various mageia mailing-lists and propose their help. it was
+their choice. you may not agree, but please respect their choice. same
+as i respect your choice: you prefer continuing with mandriva, fine. and
+i won't come and try to convince you over and over: we're grown-ups, and
+can make our opinion ourselve.
+
+
+> In all these claims about this being a community project and it being
+> independent off people's employment and all, would you really find
+> disgruntled ex-employees which has only been involved in this project
+> through employment as the most trustworthy characters? How much time
+> do they actually plan to invest themself into this project on their
+> sparetime now that they're not employed by Mandriva?
+
+this is none of your business. really.
+they will speak about that if they want, but otherwise, please stay away
+from their private life.
+
+
+> I can't really start telling how provoked I am over seeing this
+> childish and truly community hostile attitude, or about the claims
+> about through the liquidation of Edge-IT all of the talents and
+> important people involved in development of the distribution
+> disappearing, guess what, the majority of the staff working on the
+> distribution for quite some time has actually been employed at
+> Conectiva, not Edge-IT!
+
+once again: if you think it's better to follow up mandriva, then please
+do so. what we did was community-friendly: after having understood that
+a reconciliation could not be done at this moment, it's way better to
+say "good-bye, we're going on our own", rather than rotting and
+spreading bad will / mood in the project.
+
+and who knows, maybe there will be a reconciliation later on. but i can
+tell you that it's not possible right now. trying to force a
+reconciliation won't work - it doesn't work like that.
+ 
+
+jérôme 
+-- 
+jquelin at gmail.com
+