[Mageia-discuss] [Cooker] Transparency & open invitation to a united foundation..? [Was: forking mandriva]

Tue Sep 21 11:30:42 CEST 2010

2010/9/21 Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b at googlemail.com>:
+> 2010/9/21 Per Øyvind Karlsen <peroyvind at mandriva.org>:
+>>
+>> Oh well, I fear that this I with this post and the proposition might
+>> just be flamed to death no matter how sane and justified I may find
+>> this that others might consider a flamebait pipedream, or perhaps just
+>> ignored which wouldn't surprise me that much either, but as there
+>> might just be slight chance of constructive discussion taking place
+>> and something of use to someone rather than a new round with
+>> distribution of blame and angry voices, I take my chances in the
+>> spirit of the greater good for everyone. :o)
+>
+> Hmm, now here we have our old Per Øyvind back, while his person was
+> occupied by a demon lately?
+Nah, he just rather felt the motivation and ideas about organization
+being too different and in contrast, getting in the way of any mutual
+goals and hopes, making them irrelevant. But I'd rather focus on
+bringing these in line and of mutual interest as well now rather than
+criticizing further. ;)
+>
+> What you propose makes the same sense as it made a couple of months
+> ago, but the circumstances have changed a lot meanwhile. Yoou can't
+> turn back the pages and read again like "Forget what was, here is a
+> born again world". Now such a system as you suggest will depend not
+> only on technical and economical questions as it was some time ago but
+> also on how much trust you can still have / want to have in the
+> current powers at Mandriva as well as how much motivation the makers
+> of this fork can show to cooperate with a company which has treated
+> them as seen in the previous months. This can only be answered by
+> those people, not by any other.
+Well, you and me both has managed to stay focused on and more care
+around the community part despite getting canned from the company
+since quite a while ago, and even both had our quarrels with some of
+the community as well, independent of our employment, we're still
+around. Personally I'd feel rather hypocritical otherwise as any
+claims and beliefs of mine about Mandriva Linux being a community
+distribution wouldn't be consistent with letting my professional
+relations interfer with community involvement. I'd experience it as if
+I were setting myself and my own personal feelings towards the
+employer in that context, especially if imposing it on the community
+and allow for it to dictate their direction..
+
+I also feel that the claim about all talents and core developers of
+the distribution being quite unfair to those people employed at
+Conectiva, which AFAIK still has more people despite all it's previous
+departures (which to my understanding most of likely wouldn't have
+left either under the current situation where remaining staff chose to
+stay) assigned to work on the community distribution than Edge-IT had
+when liquidated. This kinda suggests a notion of the whole
+distribution and anything of importance revolves around these
+relatively few people at Edge-IT, and that the staff at Conectiva,
+despite being made up of more people, they're less important.. Same
+can be said for community contributors..
+
+So, is this the case? If it's not, then there shouldn't be anything in
+the way of continuing involvement in the community and help improve it
+and setting up a community organization together with and around it,
+after all, we're grownups and should know better than taking out our
+grudges on others..
+I don't really like implying such and feel uncomfortable about raising
+the questions, but there's several details concerning this that raises
+the question on where you're actually acting in the community's best
+interest or not, if your intentions really are, then I urge you to
+reconsider participate in this attempt on establishing a dialogue..
+
+Certainly there can be other technical differences and desires
+motivating the fork as well, making it more desirable for both parties
+and allowing for them different focus and priorities without being at
+conflict, but this doesn't have to mean that a split has to happen in
+the community nor that we cannot work together on creating an
+organization together and collaborate rather than burning bridges and
+creating grounds for controversy and hostility. As the interest and
+desires expressed by Matthew and Unity Linux, and their efforts all
+along has shown, there is room for diversity and different focus while
+at the same time actively working on improving relations and how to
+better complement eachother.
+As there's obviously interest for these things in both the Unity and
+Mandriva community, why wouldn't there be so in the Mageia community?
+If there's not, it wouldn't seem very professional of you, and
+certainly not community friendly nor in the community's best interest,
+would it?
+The official news and strategy announced by Mandriva certainly doesn't
+seem to  rumours on bad intentions threatening the community or the
+distribution's future either, so that shouldn't be the concern
+either...
+>
+> And of course it depends on how the powers at Mandriva (I do not mean
+> Laprevote but rather his peers) will see such an obligation, which it
+> will be for them. Would they see it as a necessary move, I mean
+> necessary for their plans, not ours? As we do not know their plans we
+> can't even speculate about that. I remember an investor talking to a
+> former member of the Mandriva board, advising him to get rid of the
+> enduser community because they only keep the company away from
+> important work. I don't say that all investors think like that, but
+> it's a good example.
+Then I guess we should be happy that investor is no longer on the board. ;)
+But certainly with regards to the company and related to the changes
+in it's management, verifying their current position on the matter and
+ensure their actual interest would certainly be useful before assuming
+or expecting anything. If we have it and a good dialogue is
+established, then much can be done from there.
+>
+> Of course, a Mandriva company which really means to carry out what
+> Laprevote mentioned in his motivation "news", a Mandriva company which
+> starts being communicative and transparent where it is possible, a
+> Mandriva company which starts doing what it always claimed to be their
+> commitment ("we are committed to the community"), this could be a good
+> partner, /me thinks, day dreaming.
+Yupp, and we can only find out by giving the chance and try contribute
+to this ourself, it's a two-way street after all.. :)
+> But as I wrote: I have no voice in this anyway.
+Yupp, but we can at least hope to influence in the best interest, for
+Mageia I personally didn't really have any real knowledge of before
+after it's announcement, so I'm not expecting to even have much of a
+voice in by myself, yet I'm hoping logic, reason and mutual benefits
+and goals will come out winning in the end.. :)
+>
+> BTW: I thought the chief in hugs was François Bancilhon? :)
+Well, I'm his secret twin, and as he weren't granted this overwhelming
+responsibility at the first assembly meeting, he has to share the
+duties with me, tipsy or not. ;)
+
+--
+Hugziez&kizzez,
+Your BFF <3
+Per Øyvind
+