From 1be510f9529cb082f802408b472a77d074b394c0 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Nicolas Vigier Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 13:46:12 +0000 Subject: Add zarb MLs html archives --- .../20120412/188bc8b5/attachment-0001.html | 47 ++++++++++++++++++++++ .../attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment.html | 47 ++++++++++++++++++++++ .../20120412/72967659/attachment-0001.html | 16 ++++++++ .../attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment.html | 16 ++++++++ .../20120412/cc64cc34/attachment-0001.html | 24 +++++++++++ .../attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment.html | 24 +++++++++++ .../20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment-0001.asc | 7 ++++ .../attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment.asc | 7 ++++ 8 files changed, 188 insertions(+) create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment-0001.html create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment.html create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment-0001.html create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment.html create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment-0001.html create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment.html create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment-0001.asc create mode 100644 zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/ff50dd5d/attachment.asc (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412') diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bde0fbff3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,47 @@ +

Στις 12 Απριλίου 2012 7:50 π.μ., ο χρήστης Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b@googlemail.com> έγραψε:
+
2012/4/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <dglent@gmail.com>:
+> Στις 11/04/2012 19:11:55 Wolfgang Bornath γράψατε:
+>> 2012/4/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <dglent@gmail.com>:
+>> > Στις 11/04/2012 16:05:23 γράψατε:
+>> >> * I am not at home, actually  how much space they take ? For what kind of
+>> >> size we are talking about ?
+>> >
+>> > The /usr/share/doc/HTML/en folder has a size of 43.5 MiB, which even now if it takes a lot of place anyone can delete this folder from his system.
+>>
+>> We are not talking about deleting data from the harddisk. We are
+>> talking about installing and uninstalling, not just deleting. The
+>> issue is to avoid the installation (if not wanted) and consequently
+>> avoid updates.
+>>
+>> I expected the discussion about the technical options to be quite long
+>> and not at all trivial, I did not expect such a discussion about the
+>> "why". There are valid use cases which answer the "why" quite clear
+>> and simple.
+>>
+>>
+>
+> I dont understand very well.
+
+
Yes, I see.
+

+> - We dont have a lot of space so we want to be able to uninstall some software and it has to be the documentation as the most unwanted ?
+> - We want for a question of free choice to be able to choose if we want the documentation to be installed or not ? but this has to be the same for all kde software and dependencies, why is the documentation the problem.
+ +
+
We have been talking about handbooks because they are single packages
+(not included in the software package) which are not needed/wanted by
+everybody and they are not necessary to run the software.
+

+> Dont forget that is a part of KDE and it has a global shortcut F1 to access it. If there is a case that it will be not available until the user install it in a additionally way, it breaks the upstream software.
+
+
The important word in your sentence is "if". This does not apply to
+simple applications like kcalc or some simple games or whatever you
+may regard as "simple apps". And as said before: it does not break the
+
upstream software.

I don't agree, i consider the handbook as a part of the application, and for me a KDE installation without the handbooks it is a broken installation.
+My opinion is that the person who does nt want it has to uninstall it and not that the person who want it has to install it

 
+
+
+> It is truth that i spend a lot of time to translate documentation, and i do it with love, so it is normal that i have a preference in their existence in the system; certainly i cannot use this argument here.
+
+
Yes, you have to live with that like we all have to. I already said that.

Yes i have to ...IF finally a such decision will be taken



--
Dimitrios Glentadakis
+
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bde0fbff3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/188bc8b5/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,47 @@ +

Στις 12 Απριλίου 2012 7:50 π.μ., ο χρήστης Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b@googlemail.com> έγραψε:
+
2012/4/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <dglent@gmail.com>:
+> Στις 11/04/2012 19:11:55 Wolfgang Bornath γράψατε:
+>> 2012/4/11 Dimitrios Glentadakis <dglent@gmail.com>:
+>> > Στις 11/04/2012 16:05:23 γράψατε:
+>> >> * I am not at home, actually  how much space they take ? For what kind of
+>> >> size we are talking about ?
+>> >
+>> > The /usr/share/doc/HTML/en folder has a size of 43.5 MiB, which even now if it takes a lot of place anyone can delete this folder from his system.
+>>
+>> We are not talking about deleting data from the harddisk. We are
+>> talking about installing and uninstalling, not just deleting. The
+>> issue is to avoid the installation (if not wanted) and consequently
+>> avoid updates.
+>>
+>> I expected the discussion about the technical options to be quite long
+>> and not at all trivial, I did not expect such a discussion about the
+>> "why". There are valid use cases which answer the "why" quite clear
+>> and simple.
+>>
+>>
+>
+> I dont understand very well.
+
+
Yes, I see.
+

+> - We dont have a lot of space so we want to be able to uninstall some software and it has to be the documentation as the most unwanted ?
+> - We want for a question of free choice to be able to choose if we want the documentation to be installed or not ? but this has to be the same for all kde software and dependencies, why is the documentation the problem.
+ +
+
We have been talking about handbooks because they are single packages
+(not included in the software package) which are not needed/wanted by
+everybody and they are not necessary to run the software.
+

+> Dont forget that is a part of KDE and it has a global shortcut F1 to access it. If there is a case that it will be not available until the user install it in a additionally way, it breaks the upstream software.
+
+
The important word in your sentence is "if". This does not apply to
+simple applications like kcalc or some simple games or whatever you
+may regard as "simple apps". And as said before: it does not break the
+
upstream software.

I don't agree, i consider the handbook as a part of the application, and for me a KDE installation without the handbooks it is a broken installation.
+My opinion is that the person who does nt want it has to uninstall it and not that the person who want it has to install it

 
+
+
+> It is truth that i spend a lot of time to translate documentation, and i do it with love, so it is normal that i have a preference in their existence in the system; certainly i cannot use this argument here.
+
+
Yes, you have to live with that like we all have to. I already said that.

Yes i have to ...IF finally a such decision will be taken



--
Dimitrios Glentadakis
+
diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..613df0672 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,16 @@ +

+

2012/4/12 Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b@googlemail.com>:
+[...]
+> We have been talking about handbooks because they are single packages
+> (not included in the software package) which are not needed/wanted by
+> everybody and they are not necessary to run the software.
+Handbooks *are* part of the software and "artificially" generate as standalone package to fix a bug affecting live cd where this documentation was not available to ease *installation* of it instead of reinstall all of it.
+ +If we're able in the future to get more space on our live-cd you can be sure that i'll (if I'm still in charge) revert this ugly hack.
+For the record luc also fix the installation of wrong handbooks on the DVD install ( only the suggests one should be installed with the correct app) & I'll try to fix the last remaining bug pointed by anssi where a handbook could stay available when the related app is removed.

+ +

Regards,

+

--
+Balcaen John
+Jabber-id: mikala@jabber.littleboboy.net
+

diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..613df0672 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/72967659/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,16 @@ +

+

2012/4/12 Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b@googlemail.com>:
+[...]
+> We have been talking about handbooks because they are single packages
+> (not included in the software package) which are not needed/wanted by
+> everybody and they are not necessary to run the software.
+Handbooks *are* part of the software and "artificially" generate as standalone package to fix a bug affecting live cd where this documentation was not available to ease *installation* of it instead of reinstall all of it.
+ +If we're able in the future to get more space on our live-cd you can be sure that i'll (if I'm still in charge) revert this ugly hack.
+For the record luc also fix the installation of wrong handbooks on the DVD install ( only the suggests one should be installed with the correct app) & I'll try to fix the last remaining bug pointed by anssi where a handbook could stay available when the related app is removed.

+ +

Regards,

+

--
+Balcaen John
+Jabber-id: mikala@jabber.littleboboy.net
+

diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment-0001.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment-0001.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..754f37931 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment-0001.html @@ -0,0 +1,24 @@ +

Le 12 avr. 2012 06:38, "Wolfgang Bornath" <molch.b@googlemail.com> a écrit :
+>
+[...]

+

> I am strictly opposed to include documentation in a software package,
+> in general, not only in the case at hand. Although I spent much time
+> for voluntary translation work, I still think it is up to the user if
+> he wants/needs the documentation. A prominent example which matches my
+> POV is The Gimp.
+>
+> Reality is that in non-technical issues people in charge decide on the
+> basis of their opinion. That's the normal way and the rest has to live
+> with it. I have no problem with that.

+

You should here open a bug report on kde bugzilla then to get attention & remove documentation from every kde tarball/project (which also means to deal with the F1 shortcut & have a dynamic help menu)

+

>
+> > For the record luc also fix the installation of wrong handbooks on the DVD
+> > install ( only the suggests one should be installed with the correct app) &
+> > I'll try to fix the last remaining bug pointed by anssi where a handbook
+> > could stay available when the related app is removed.
+>
+> If non-installation of handbooks is not possible then at least make it
+> possible to *uninstall* handbooks without having to use 'rpm --nodeps'
+> on each and every one.
+I don't remember having a package requiring his handbook at all since I used suggests here especially to fix the live cd problem I pointed earlier.
+The idea is to ensure that you'll get kcal handbook removed when kcal package is removed.

diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..754f37931 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/attachments/20120412/cc64cc34/attachment.html @@ -0,0 +1,24 @@ +

Le 12 avr. 2012 06:38, "Wolfgang Bornath" <molch.b@googlemail.com> a écrit :
+>
+[...]

+

> I am strictly opposed to include documentation in a software package,
+> in general, not only in the case at hand. Although I spent much time
+> for voluntary translation work, I still think it is up to the user if
+> he wants/needs the documentation. A prominent example which matches my
+> POV is The Gimp.
+>
+> Reality is that in non-technical issues people in charge decide on the
+> basis of their opinion. That's the normal way and the rest has to live
+> with it. I have no problem with that.

+

You should here open a bug report on kde bugzilla then to get attention & remove documentation from every kde tarball/project (which also means to deal with the F1 shortcut & have a dynamic help menu)

+

>
+> > For the record luc also fix the installation of wrong handbooks on the DVD
+> > install ( only the suggests one should be installed with the correct app) &
+> > I'll try to fix the last remaining bug pointed by anssi where a handbook
+> > could stay available when the related app is removed.
+>
+> If non-installation of handbooks is not possible then at least make it
+> possible to *uninstall* handbooks without having to use 'rpm --nodeps'
+> on each and every one.
+I don't remember having a package requiring his handbook at all since I used suggests here especially to fix the live cd problem I pointed earlier.
+The idea is to ensure that you'll get kcal handbook removed when kcal package is removed.

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