[Mageia-dev] Cinnamon

Mon Nov 26 17:09:43 CET 2012

> This is true, and there is no doubt that we need more resources, but in
+> this case it could cost more than it gains. We have had issues in the
+> past of the packages for these alternative DEs causing issues for the
+> core DEs due to the packages satisfying dep's required by the core packages.
+
+I don't think that cinnamon is ready for Mageia 3.  However if we have
+a situation
+in which it's impossible to package a new DE even in an experimental setting,
+then we have a pretty serious problem.  That locks Mageia to GNOME and KDE,
+and GNOME is self-destructing.
+
+The "testing" repository seems like it's a good place to put these
+sorts of things.
+Or there must be a way of marking a package as "cauldron-only."  We had a
+"contrib" section in Mandriva that dealt with that.
+
+The other question is how does Fedora manage to do it.
+
+> So while you may have packaged Cinnamon and tested that *it* works, have
+> you tested it in a repository along with all the other packages we have,
+> installing e.g. a gnome install and double checking that none of the
+> cinnamon packages have been pulled in to satisfy deps (incorrectly)?
+
+chicken meets egg.  If I can check this on my machine, then I can write a
+script to check for this.  However, the place where you find this
+sorts of issues
+is when other people start using the package and finding that it doesn't work.
+But that involves making the package available for other people to use.
+
+The two big alternatives to GNOME are cinnamon and MATE, and one nice
+thing about cinnamon is that it's relatively non-intrusive.
+
+> Perhaps you have, but the "resources" required to support a new DE is
+> not simply on the packaging. It's in the QA and it's in the testing of
+> the fallout to other installs when those packages simply exist in the
+> repos. This is what often takes the most resources.
+
+Sure, and you don't want that to block mageia 3.
+
+But most of QA and testing involves getting live users to actually run the
+packages.  If you don't somehow get the packages out to power users
+then things will never get fixed.
+
+> If you are keen to push this through, then I'm afraid you likely will
+> have to get involved in discussions about it.
+
+Or I can do things the easy way.  I basically took the Fedora SPEC's
+and modified them for Mageia.  I could just as well work on Fedora or
+Linux Mint, and then at some point when Mageia wants to the take those
+SPEC's, then someone else can port them over.
+
+I just want a nice looking desktop and to have a stable platform that I
+can use to do astrophysics hacking.  If I have to spend any non-trivial
+effort to get cinnamon packaged in some way that doesn't break the
+system, then I'm going to go insane pushing through the 50-100 other
+astrophysics packages that I want to add to Mageia.
+
+Now maybe you all don't want me to add 50-100 professional astrophysics
+packages to Mageia.  If so, then it's good we had this discussion now :-)
+:-) :-)
+
+> Also, if you really do wish to have this supported, then you should
+> likely keep on packaging and hopefully find some of the many
+> unmaintained packages to adopt and prove that you will be sticking
+> around for a while and not abandon maintenance in the future for
+> whatever reason.
+
+Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to work.  The trouble is that I'm
+doing things out of my "spare time."  The people at my day job can
+"persuade" me to show up at work every morning and work regular hours
+because they hand me $$$$.  Everything I do outside of work is for love
+and not money, and love is fickle.  I'll *try* to do what I can, but I have a
+day job and kids, and those come first.
+
+Also, I get annoyed enough trying to climb the corporate ladder in my
+day job.  I have to play game after game to get myself in a position
+where people will listen to me at work.  Today, I had to put together
+some Powerpoints for a "review committee" at work, and tomorrow
+there is going to be a meeting, and another meeting, and e-mail discussion
+and requirements documents, and project plans.  And in the middle of
+all of this, I just sometimes want to scream at the committee.  But I don't
+since they pay me $$$$$$$ not to tell them what I really think of them.
+
+But you aren''t paying me............
+
+Now, you may say that this is just "part of life."  It may be "part of Mageia"
+but it's certainly not part of "open source," and I can put together useful
+things elsewhere without having to go through the damn review committee.
+Remember I got these specs by converting Fedora RPM's, and they'll be the
+first people I'll go to.  If they don't work, then I'll try a dozen
+other distributions,
+and if none of those work, I'll start my own.
+
+I suppose it would help if someone tries to "sell" me Mageia.  What is
+Mageia, and why should I volunteer to work on it?
+
+The thing is that if it is uncertain whether cinnamon will get into Mageia,
+then it's just a waste of time for me to work on it in Mageia.  It would be
+more useful for me to work on getting it to work with Fedora, Ubuntu, or
+Mint, because I know that it's going to be useful there.
+