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zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/thread.html (limited to 'zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325') diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003637.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003637.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..900571348 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003637.html @@ -0,0 +1,145 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ andre999 + andr55 at laposte.net +
+ Fri Mar 25 01:29:34 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
JA Magallón a écrit :
+>
+> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:18 -0400, andre999<andr55 at laposte.net>  wrote:
+>
+>> Romain d'Alverny a écrit :
+>>>
+>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 20:08, Anssi Hannula<anssi.hannula at iki.fi>   wrote:
+>>>> On 24.03.2011 19:35, Romain d'Alverny wrote:
+>>>>> Summary (from http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=licensing_policy):
+>>>>>    * core: stuff that is not Free/Open Source according to OSI/FSF does
+>>>>> not belong here. Not even closed-source stuff that we can
+>>>>> redistribute. So if there is at this time, that's something to fix.
+>>>>
+>>>> Most of files in kernel-firmware (which is in core) are not OSI/FSF free
+>>>> (approximate list from 2010 [1]). There was a short thread about that
+>>>> [2] where I asked the question if they should be moved to non-free due
+>>>> to them not being OSI/FSF free, and tmb agreed, while pterjan disagreed
+>>>> (saying BSD without source code (where a portion of the firmware files
+>>>> in question fall) is eligible for core).
+>>>>
+>>>> [1] http://lists.mandriva.com/cooker/2010-01/msg00525.php
+>>>> [2] https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20110115/002172.html
+>>>
+>>> Ah right, sorry for overlooking this.
+>>>
+>>> So what do we do? amend core inclusion definition for that? or move
+>>> these to nonfree? (and at what cost?) topic for next Council meeting
+>>> to decide? would you like to write a summary for this in
+>>> http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=meeting:council_notes_2011_03_28#open_questions
+>>> ?
+>>>
+>>> Romain
+>>
+>> fwiw, I think the best solution is to have an express policy to include
+>> such firmware in core.
+>> Without it, much hardware simply won't work.  Firmware/drivers are
+>> essentially extensions to hardware, so that software can work with them.
+>> The hardware is changed, and firmware/drivers have to be changed to
+>> accommodate the hardware.
+>> These firmware/drivers provide an interface which allows (free) software
+>> to run.
+>> A practical solution, which doesn't hurt free software.
+>> The alternative is (free) software that doesn't run properly.
+>>
+>> my 2 cents :)
+>
+> Sincerely, I would be more than happy than nVidia drivers went to core,
+> but I'm pragmatic. I can understand that moving only firmwares to
+> core, and leaving nVidia, ATI and other closed source drivers in non-free
+> can be a compromise solution. It's the difference between losing
+> 100% functionality of an important piece of hardware/system (network,
+> for example -now that I read the list in Anssi's mail, 80% of firmwares
+> in non-free are network- o fiber-channel), or getting a not so performant
+> system 'cause you dont have the binary drivers for your graphics card
+> (and I'm not aware of any other binary driver so popular/needed, nVidia
+> and ATI).
+>
+> So in short, there are three important pieces of software:
+> - net/fc/radeon firmwares, mandatory for some free drivers
+> - nVidia/ATI binary drivers, wanted but optional, not mandatory
+>
+> Firmwares and drivers, they are different beasts for me.
+>
+> And anyways, you already have firmwares in your hardware and in your
+> kernel which source you can't look at...
+> And cherry picking firmwares from standard kernel source looks like
+> madness for me.
+
+ok.
+My though was essentially that firmware is so close to hardware that its 
+actual free/non-free status shouldn't apply - we should treat it like 
+(almost) part of the hardware.
+
+As for the drivers, a little more distant from the hardware, they could 
+be in non-free, but I sincerely think that they should be on all 
+installation isos.
+That is, on installing from an iso, all hardware-related functions 
+should (ideally) be fully functional, even if it requires using non-free 
+drivers.
+The lack of some drivers (or components of drivers) can render a system 
+technically functional, but with important dysfunctions, simply because 
+the required drivers were not available on installation.
+That should not happen.
+The kernel, firmware and drivers, built on the hardware, provide a 
+platform on which the application software runs.
+True, it is better if drivers are open source, but in my view, it is 
+application software where open source is the most important.
+
+-- 
+André
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003638.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003638.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bd860854a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003638.html @@ -0,0 +1,99 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] buildsystem => maintainers db link test + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] buildsystem => maintainers db link test

+ Thomas Spuhler + thomas at btspuhler.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 05:23:22 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:24:44 am Romain d'Alverny wrote:
+> Cool. Thanks to pterjan and boklm we now have a post on maintdb test
+> platform on each upload. That will help setting things up further.
+> 
+> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 20:45, Maarten Vanraes
+> 
+> <maarten.vanraes at gmail.com> wrote:
+> > Op woensdag 23 maart 2011 20:32:42 schreef Michael Scherer:
+> >> ( nota : xml rpc interface could be a good idea to add later if not on
+> >> the roadmap )
+> 
+> Why not yes.
+> 
+> > Personally, i want an app where i can log in, search a package, and grab
+> > / drop it (last packager could be shown if you have the info anyway...),
+> > and a link to the bugs of that package, and also a way to show my
+> > maintained packages. that's it.
+> 
+> This whole thing may be a mashup of several apps in the end (profile
+> page for you, profile page for a package, for a team, etc.), among
+> which the maintdb is only one piece.
+> 
+> Let's just build the minimal set needed for now for maintainer/package
+> association and build from that.
+> 
+> Heard comments about having a more straight association between the
+> actual maintainer and the package (and not considering people pushing
+> a rebuild as a co-maintainer). Will see how to manage that.
+> 
+> Any other point?
+> 
+> Thanks!
+> 
+> Romain
+Let's start to get this running.
+-- 
+Thomas
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003639.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003639.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..50188046a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003639.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Dexter Morgan + dmorganec at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 07:42:51 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 1:29 AM, andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net> wrote:
+> ok.
+> My though was essentially that firmware is so close to hardware that its
+> actual free/non-free status shouldn't apply - we should treat it like
+> (almost) part of the hardware.
+>
+> As for the drivers, a little more distant from the hardware, they could be
+> in non-free, but I sincerely think that they should be on all installation
+> isos.
+
+hi,
+
+Not on ALL ISOS, because that way you don't respect ppl that really
+"respect" the free softwares and that don't want any closed software
+on their computer.
+
+hth
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003640.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003640.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5f2c9d999 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003640.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Romain d'Alverny + rdalverny at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 08:09:43 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 01:29, andre999 <andr55 at laposte.net> wrote:
+> My though was essentially that firmware is so close to hardware that its
+> actual free/non-free status shouldn't apply - we should treat it like
+> (almost) part of the hardware.
+
+No. Because it's hardware or firmware doesn't make it more or less an
+issue regarding being open source or not. The same reasoning applies
+as for software. And if it's not open source, it's not. Even closed
+hardware is an issue in the end (in this regard, the open hardware
+movement is still in its infancy but it's promising - and important
+too).
+
+That something is put in nonfree media instead of core shouldn't pose
+an irresolvable issue for easyness of installation and use.
+
+> That is, on installing from an iso, all hardware-related functions should
+> (ideally) be fully functional, even if it requires using non-free drivers.
+
+You are mixing two things: what goes into core or nonfree, and what
+goes onto a shipped ISO.
+
+The question is not shipping or not ISOs with or without nonfree stuff
+on it. Some ISO will host core & nonfree parts of course, for the sake
+of convenience for users (that doesn't prevent from informing about
+the issues regarding nonfree stuff). But some available ISO ought to
+host only core (that is, expected, only FLOSS).
+
+Romain
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003641.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003641.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..71540b8c7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003641.html @@ -0,0 +1,107 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Buchan Milne + bgmilne at staff.telkomsa.net +
+ Fri Mar 25 08:17:27 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+----- "andre999" <andr55 at laposte.net> wrote:
+
+
+> ok.
+> My though was essentially that firmware is so close to hardware that
+> its 
+> actual free/non-free status shouldn't apply - we should treat it like
+> 
+> (almost) part of the hardware.
+
+I would agree, but some people wouldn't.
+
+> As for the drivers, a little more distant from the hardware, they
+> could 
+> be in non-free, but I sincerely think that they should be on all 
+> installation isos.
+
+I wouldn't say "all".
+
+> That is, on installing from an iso, all hardware-related functions 
+> should (ideally) be fully functional, even if it requires using
+> non-free 
+> drivers.
+
+IMHO, not without informing the user, so that they have the choice (e.g. to consider replacing the hardware by something supported by free software => supporting vendors who support free software).
+
+> The lack of some drivers (or components of drivers) can render a
+> system 
+> technically functional, but with important dysfunctions, simply
+> because 
+> the required drivers were not available on installation.
+> That should not happen.
+
+IMHO, that is not *our* choice to make for the user.
+
+> The kernel, firmware and drivers, built on the hardware, provide a 
+> platform on which the application software runs.
+> True, it is better if drivers are open source, but in my view, it is 
+> application software where open source is the most important.
+
+But, that is *your* view.
+
+IMHO, some of these questions should be posed to the community.
+
+For example, maybe we should brand ISO releases as something like "Mageia Libre" and "Mageia Gratis" (note, not a "Mageia" and "Mageia limited" or similar, give equal standing to both releases), where Libre would include no non-free software of any kind on the media, users using Libre would never be prompted about non-free software (without opting in, by e.g. installing a different release package). Gratis would include non-free software/firmware required to enable hardware or specific hardware features.
+
+I think it may be worthwhile catering to users who would like to follow FSF Free distribution guidelines as closely as possible, by providing a release that is as close as practically possible to these guidelines (but still making it possible for pragmatic users to have a good experience).
+
+Regards,
+Buchan
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003642.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003642.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..76f6f064a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003642.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ David W. Hodgins + davidwhodgins at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 08:47:37 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 03:17:27 -0400, Buchan Milne <bgmilne at staff.telkomsa.net> wrote:
+
+> But, that is *your* view.
+> IMHO, some of these questions should be posed to the community.
+
+My opinion, is that the there must be an iso that includes
+everything needed to install a basic system, and get updates
+or other software.
+
+If the network will not be accessible without jumping through
+hoops, then the distro will devolve into one only used by
+people willing to jump through those hoops.  I doubt most
+people are willing.
+
+If the network cannot be accessed after (or while) installing
+the system, without jumping through hoops, who is going to
+bother trying to use it?
+
+Put the non-free (should be renamed to closed-source, or
+something more explanatory) in a separate directory on the iso,
+and give the installer the choice of using it.
+
+Whether or not the default should be to include it or not is
+open for discussion.  In My opinion, it should be an opt-out,
+not an opt-in.
+
+Regards, Dave Hodgins
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003643.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003643.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..85f4a967f --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003643.html @@ -0,0 +1,69 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 08:53:05 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Ok, can we get back on topic?
+
+Is there any compelling reason why we cannot reenable qt3-devel in the qt3
+source package that is ALREADY part of Mageia?
+
+If not then I want to reenable it.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003644.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003644.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bbd9cdf30 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003644.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Dexter Morgan + dmorganec at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 09:15:48 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+>
+>
+> Ok, can we get back on topic?
+>
+> Is there any compelling reason why we cannot reenable qt3-devel in the qt3
+> source package that is ALREADY part of Mageia?
+>
+> If not then I want to reenable it.
+
+Work on TDE on your side first, we won't reenable this old,
+deprecated, unmaintened package is nothing really need it.
+Reenable it locally for you, do all your work on TDE and then when you
+will have fullfilled and pre required  we will be able to start to
+discuss about TDE.
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003645.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003645.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6327c1339 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003645.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 09:22:00 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: Dexter Morgan wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 09:15
+
+> > Is there any compelling reason why we cannot reenable qt3-devel in
+> > the qt3
+> > source package that is ALREADY part of Mageia?
+> >
+> > If not then I want to reenable it.
+> 
+> Work on TDE on your side first, we won't reenable this old,
+> deprecated, unmaintened package is nothing really need it.
+> Reenable it locally for you, do all your work on TDE and then when you
+> will have fullfilled and pre required  we will be able to start to
+> discuss about TDE.
+
+Dexter, you didn't really answer my question, I will work on TDE by myself
+but my question is about if there is any COMPELLING REASON NOT TO REENABLE
+QT3-devel.
+
+QT3 is ALREADY included in Mageia so reenabling the devel package does not
+make any difference whatsoever to Mageia.
+
+I didn't start this thread to discuss about TDE, but purely for qt3-devel.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003646.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003646.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..58ffd3665 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003646.html @@ -0,0 +1,183 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Buchan Milne + bgmilne at staff.telkomsa.net +
+ Fri Mar 25 09:23:56 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+----- "andre999" <andr55 at laposte.net> wrote:
+
+> Wolfgang Bornath a écrit :
+> >
+> > 2011/3/24 Olivier Blin<mageia at blino.org>:
+> >> Thorsten van Lil<tvl83 at gmx.de>  writes:
+> >>
+> >>> Am 24.03.2011 09:57, schrieb Wolfgang Bornath:
+> >>>> 2011/3/24 Ahmad Samir<ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com>:
+> >>>>> On 24 March 2011 02:58, Dexter Morgan<dmorganec at gmail.com>   
+> wrote:
+> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Ahmad
+> Samir<ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com>    wrote:
+> >>>>>>>
+> >>>>>>> Has the Free DVD in Mandriva ever contained non-free
+> firmware?
+> >>>>>>
+> >>>>>> No, but the question is more , will we provide a "non free" dvd
+> iso,
+> >>>>>> and this question is i think interesting.
+> >>>>>>
+> >>>> A possible solution for people with such a setup could be a
+> non-free
+> >>>> "driver cd ISO" which they could include in the installation
+> process.
+> >>>>
+> >>>
+> >>> What about a DVD including non-free packages but has the option to
+> not
+> >>> install them?
+> >>> I think the majority of the users don't care that much about
+> >>> proprietary issues, they just need them for using there wireless
+> card
+> >>> or graphic card. Those how do care can just uncheck the non-free
+> part
+> >>> of the DVD. :)
+> >>
+> >> Yep, it could just be an option. The desktop selection step seems
+> to be a
+> >> good place in the installer to include it, it is visible enough,
+> and
+> >> right before packages installation. Though it would have to be
+> renamed.
+> >>
+> >> We could have a checkbox "Install proprietary drivers if needed
+> >> (non-free software)", ticked by default.
+> 
+> perfect solution :)
+
+Maybe for you. Maybe for me. But, the *real* question is, would this discourage some of our target market from using our distribution.
+
+IOW, we *must* get community input (after documenting some proposals).
+
+> > Are you aware that this would mean that Mageia is not a "free
+> > distribution" as planned? No matter how you phrase the question and
+> > how many checkboxes a user would have to check, if non-free
+> contents
+> > is included in an ISO it is not a free ISO anymore.
+> 
+> Mageia the distribution includes non-free software.  We are talking 
+> about what we include on the ISO.
+> If users want to exclude installing any non-free packages, this 
+> check-box solution solves the problem nicely.
+
+Depends on what guidelines you follow. E.g., some might say there shouldn't be a checkbox at all. Some might say the checkbox should be disabled by default. Some might say that there should be no non-free software on the default media.
+
+> So users that want to ensure that their installation works "out of the
+> 
+> box" will be satisfied.
+> And purists that don't mind some things not working, can avoid 
+> installing non-free drivers.
+
+"Can avoid" and "guaranteed to never occur" are not the same, and some users may want the latter.
+
+> Sounds like a win-win solution to me :)
+
+But, again, this is subjective, you are presenting your preference, and yours may not be the only one we should cater to.
+
+Regards,
+Buchan
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003647.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003647.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3852e14d5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003647.html @@ -0,0 +1,142 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Buchan Milne + bgmilne at staff.telkomsa.net +
+ Fri Mar 25 09:28:20 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+----- "Maarten Vanraes" <maarten.vanraes at gmail.com> wrote:
+
+> Op donderdag 24 maart 2011 11:18:03 schreef Olivier Blin:
+> > Wolfgang Bornath <molch.b at googlemail.com> writes:
+> > >>> It can't be "free" and have "non-free" firmware... previously
+> the
+> > >>> firmware only were on the Live CD's. I am not sure anything has
+> been
+> > >>> changed in that regard (i.e. I didn't see the matter get
+> discussed
+> > >>> yet).
+> > >> 
+> > >> They were also on the PowerPack images, and they are installed
+> > >> automatically over a network install
+> > > 
+> > > But to be installed via network you have to have a network
+> connection
+> > > first, n'est-ce pas?
+> > > That's what this thread is about.
+> > 
+> > It is now also about "in which media should we include non-free
+> > packages?" :)
+> 
+> no, about if they are really non-free... stuff released as BSD is free
+> in my 
+> book. if they don't comply, they could be sued for all i care, but
+> it's still 
+> free.
+
+Well, even if they say the source code is BSD, if:
+1)The source is not provided (under a free license)
+2)The source can't be compiled with a free toolchain
+then it is non-free, and most likely the license is wrong, and they have chosen to relicense from BSD to a proprietary licence (which BSD of course allows).
+
+Compare e.g. Darwin and Mac OS X. Since Mac OS X is has some originally BSD source code, must Apple provide me with complete Mac OS X source code? If they don't, do I have grounds to sue? No. Is it Free? Most definitely not.
+
+Regards,
+Buchan
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003648.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003648.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f94ed4d83 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003648.html @@ -0,0 +1,75 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 09:33:04 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: andr55 wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 01:29
+
+> My though was essentially that firmware is so close to hardware that
+> its 
+> actual free/non-free status shouldn't apply - we should treat it like 
+> (almost) part of the hardware.
+
+I agree with that. After all nobody (apart from R. Stallmann) questions the
+fact that the BIOS of their PC is non-free or all the other firmware or
+microcode on various chips on the motherboard and on expansion cards and
+peripherals.
+
+Firmware belongs into 'core', Nvidia/ATI drivers and the Flash plugin
+belong into 'non-free'.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003649.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003649.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..fb3b61297 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003649.html @@ -0,0 +1,119 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Thorsten van Lil + tvl83 at gmx.de +
+ Fri Mar 25 09:39:16 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Am 25.03.2011 09:23, schrieb Buchan Milne:
+> Maybe for you. Maybe for me. But, the*real*  question is, would this discourage some of our target market from using our distribution.
+>
+> IOW, we*must*  get community input (after documenting some proposals).
+
+Maybe we should postpone this question.
+Let us release Mageia1 with two DVDs (one 32bit and one 64bit) and maybe 
+with a live medium. Mageia1 won't be a big step but tries to be a solid 
+fundamental for our further work, so no need to make a final decision now.
+What about a large survey after Mageia1 which concentrates not only on 
+Mageia user but the linux community at all (advertise this survey in 
+linux media/newsprotals). Ask them, what they expect from a distribution 
+or what they miss (yes I know not an easy task, need of standardized 
+questions/possible answers). I think that could be really interesting, 
+which doesn't mean that we have to implement every wish they have.
+
+Regards,
+Thorsten
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003650.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003650.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d0d33400b --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003650.html @@ -0,0 +1,137 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Buchan Milne + bgmilne at staff.telkomsa.net +
+ Fri Mar 25 09:41:08 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+----- "Tux99" <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+
+> Quote: andr55 wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 01:29
+> 
+> > My though was essentially that firmware is so close to hardware
+> that
+> > its 
+> > actual free/non-free status shouldn't apply - we should treat it
+> like 
+> > (almost) part of the hardware.
+> 
+> I agree with that. After all nobody (apart from R. Stallmann)
+> questions the
+> fact that the BIOS of their PC is non-free or all the other firmware
+> or
+> microcode on various chips on the motherboard and on expansion cards
+> and
+> peripherals.
+> 
+> Firmware belongs into 'core',
+
+You mean, firmware which has an unrestricted distribution licence?
+
+> Nvidia/ATI drivers and the Flash plugin
+> belong into 'non-free'.
+
+Actually, for Flash, we need a redistribution license. Has someone contacted Adobe about this?
+
+Redistribution of Flash without a licence is prohibited[1]. We can apply for a licence to redistribute[2].
+
+Regards,
+Buchan
+
+1. http://www.adobe.com/products/players/fpsh_faq.html#section-1-5
+2. http://www.adobe.com/go/fp_apply_dist
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003651.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003651.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..05a250a57 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003651.html @@ -0,0 +1,66 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ yves at antredugeek.fr + yves at antredugeek.fr +
+ Fri Mar 25 09:42:44 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ?
+So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that "becomes" depreciated
+?
+
+Imho, Mageia had better to wait for a trinity-qt4-desktop...
+
+++
+yg
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003652.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003652.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..80ed39073 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003652.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:09:57 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: yves wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 09:42
+----------------------------------------------------
+> Hi,
+> QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ?
+> So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that "becomes" depreciated
+> ?
+
+You are missing the point. QT3 is already part of Mageia and it wasn't me
+who added it. All I'm asking is if there is any compelling reason not to
+enable qt3-devel in the existing qt3 
+source package that is part of Mageia.
+
+If there isn't any COMPELLING reason, then qt3-devel should be reenabled as
+long as someone wishes it.
+
+What everyone here seems to forget is that a community distro should be
+first and foremost about FREEDOM. Freedom to let others enjoy their
+preferred software, not ARTIFICIAL RESTRICTIONS imposed by personal
+preferences or unnecessarily restrictive ARBITRARY RULES made up along the
+way by a few of the core members.
+
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003653.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003653.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..bb8af7adf --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003653.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Oliver Burger + oliver.bgr at googlemail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:21:50 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Am Freitag 25 März 2011, 10:09:57 schrieb Tux99:
+> What everyone here seems to forget is that a community distro should be
+> first and foremost about FREEDOM. Freedom to let others enjoy their
+> preferred software, not ARTIFICIAL RESTRICTIONS imposed by personal
+> preferences or unnecessarily restrictive ARBITRARY RULES made up along the
+> way by a few of the core members.
+
+Sorry but I can't let that stand as it is.
+
+A community distro is first and formost about community. Every time one of your 
+ideas, suggestions, questions is answered by anyone with a "no" you begin to 
+blame "a few of the core members", no matter how many people said no and who 
+they were.
+You just have to accept that in a community project like mageia there is a 
+decission structure ( see out gouvernance model at 
+http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=org).
+So there isn't a secret inner circle of dictators who tell the other what to 
+do and what not to do, it's an open structure in which everyone can 
+participate. But if the majority of people take a decision, you just have to 
+accept it.
+If anyone just does what he thinks is best, we won't have a community project, 
+we will have anarchy.
+
+Perhaps you should consider that and stop writing unfounded accusations in 
+capital letters, like you did here.
+
+Just my 2 cents...
+
+Oliver
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003654.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003654.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..fda50a724 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003654.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Romain d'Alverny + rdalverny at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:30:44 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:09, Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+> You are missing the point. QT3 is already part of Mageia and it wasn't me
+> who added it. All I'm asking is if there is any compelling reason not to
+> enable qt3-devel in the existing qt3 source package that is part of Mageia.
+
+Then ask the qt3 maintainer - and as long as you don't expect to give
+a hand in this maintaince, live by her/his answer (if it's only about
+qt3).
+
+And if you're not satisfied with the recommandations/answers you got
+from there, just push the topic as a clear question to a next coming
+Council meeting to decide on this and you'll see (but it's likely the
+Council will stand by the maintainer recommandation, unless there's
+really something big at stake on the contrary).
+
+> If there isn't any COMPELLING reason, then qt3-devel should be reenabled as
+> long as someone wishes it.
+
+If it's deprecated stuff, is there any compeling reason to reenable a
+devel package of it. And if someone wishes it back, and the
+maintainers thinks it's not worth it (too old, deprecated, unstable,
+complex, unclear, not the plan), the maintainer has the hand (so one
+can become the maintainer if it's really needed for her).
+
+> What everyone here seems to forget is that a community distro should be
+> first and foremost about FREEDOM. Freedom to let others enjoy their
+> preferred software, not ARTIFICIAL RESTRICTIONS imposed by personal
+> preferences or unnecessarily restrictive ARBITRARY RULES made up along the
+> way by a few of the core members.
+
+Wait. What you seem to forget is that this is not only about rights
+but too about duties. The "freedom" above comes from people that take
+their time to craft and package things, so they are verily in their
+right and duty to make choices - documented, discussed, agreed. And
+it's not because just one or two people argue and argue the contrary
+that the maintainer should ... "obey". See above posts, we've been
+several to suggest you a more practical path for everyone.
+
+That choices made here in this project do/will not satisfy everyone is
+plain obvious. Those choices don't prevent one from reverting them on
+ones end, demonstrate they are worth it in the project main line, and
+have them integrated.
+
+
+Romain
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003655.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003655.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..cf6780307 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003655.html @@ -0,0 +1,73 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:32:23 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: Oliver Burger wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:21
+
+> A community distro is first and formost about community. Every time one
+> of your 
+> ideas, suggestions, questions is answered by anyone with a "no" you
+> begin to 
+> blame "a few of the core members", no matter how many people said no
+> and who 
+> they were.
+
+You completely missed the point.
+
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003656.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003656.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..92c3ea188 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003656.html @@ -0,0 +1,119 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ xi + ctrl.alt.sup at free.fr +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:32:31 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
yves at antredugeek.fr wrote:
+> Hi,
+> QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ?
+> So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that "becomes" depreciated
+> ?
+> 
+> Imho, Mageia had better to wait for a trinity-qt4-desktop...
+> 
+> ++
+> yg
+> 
+> 
+
+Hi,
+
+Last realease of QT3 is _not_ 6 years old but about 3 years old ...
+
+As always, please don't drop too fast the packages that you find 
+useless. There are still some users like me who may use QT3.
+
+I still use some "not so common" applications (eg tools for electronic) 
+which needs QT3 and it is always much more convenient to simply do a 
+"urpmi libqt3-devel" than downloading and compiling qt3 ... especially 
+if libqt3 is already included in Mageia !
+
+Thanks,
+Xavier
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003657.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003657.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..58dc4c3d6 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003657.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:37:21 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:30
+
+> Wait. What you seem to forget is that this is not only about rights
+> but too about duties. The "freedom" above comes from people that take
+> their time to craft and package things, so they are verily in their
+> right and duty to make choices - documented, discussed, agreed. And
+> it's not because just one or two people argue and argue the contrary
+> that the maintainer should ... "obey". 
+
+As a general principle in a community that values freedom anything that
+doesn't affect others negatively shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
+Also I never asked anyone else to do anything, I said I would reenable
+qt3-devel unless there is a COMPELLING (i.e. blocking) reason not to do
+so.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003658.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003658.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a6641bbd5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003658.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:39:28 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: xi wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:32
+
+> As always, please don't drop too fast the packages that you find 
+> useless. There are still some users like me who may use QT3.
+> 
+> I still use some "not so common" applications (eg tools for electronic)
+> 
+> which needs QT3 and it is always much more convenient to simply do a 
+> "urpmi libqt3-devel" than downloading and compiling qt3 ... especially
+> 
+> if libqt3 is already included in Mageia !
+
+Exactly my point, thanks Xavier.
+
+This is about not restricting other people's freedoms.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003659.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003659.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f101ac9f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003659.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] for when geany in the repos? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] for when geany in the repos?

+ cristian gomez + cjgm23 at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:49:38 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
i try to compile it iself but it need gtk 2.0+ and that is not on the
+repos...and when i try to compile gtk that need more dependens,that no are
+in the repos too..
+excuseme my english.
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+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
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[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Romain d'Alverny + rdalverny at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:53:16 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 10:37, Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+> Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:30
+>
+>> Wait. What you seem to forget is that this is not only about rights
+>> but too about duties. The "freedom" above comes from people that take
+>> their time to craft and package things, so they are verily in their
+>> right and duty to make choices - documented, discussed, agreed. And
+>> it's not because just one or two people argue and argue the contrary
+>> that the maintainer should ... "obey".
+>
+> As a general principle in a community that values freedom anything that
+> doesn't affect others negatively shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
+
+You can't force a maintainer to do something you want and that she
+judges not right for her set of packages. At best you can ask a
+community (council) decision about that, and that may lead to you (or
+someone else) taking the maintainance of the said package.
+
+If you can't work here by that, or if you are not happy with how
+things go here, you are free to discuss this openly with members of
+the council or of the board to sort it out.
+
+Here was only a discussion where you get overly alarmed without any
+necessity when people start to answer their views contrary to your
+plans. Nowhere was a decision to block you. If you wanted a consensus,
+you've seen in this thread what it was; that still doesn't block you
+from doing/pushing your changes as long as they don't break anything.
+If you wanted a decision, you'd have to formally ask for that the
+packagers team, or the council, or the board: that was not done.
+
+So what are you complaining about?
+
+> Also I never asked anyone else to do anything, I said I would reenable
+> qt3-devel unless there is a COMPELLING (i.e. blocking) reason not to do
+> so.
+
+So why all the fuss? Take the maintainance of the package, make your
+changes, submit it and here you are.
+
+romain
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003661.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003661.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7a7b72537 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003661.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] for when geany in the repos? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] for when geany in the repos?

+ Anne nicolas + ennael1 at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 10:56:55 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
2011/3/25 cristian gomez <cjgm23 at gmail.com>:
+> i try to compile it iself but it need gtk 2.0+ and that is not on the
+> repos...and when i try to compile gtk that need more dependens,that no are
+> in the repos too..
+> excuseme my english.
+>
+
+check rather gtk+2.0 package
+
+-- 
+Anne
+http://www.mageia.org
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003662.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003662.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3186c7ec0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003662.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ nicolas vigier + boklm at mars-attacks.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 11:20:51 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Tux99 wrote:
+
+> 
+> 
+> Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:30
+> 
+> > Wait. What you seem to forget is that this is not only about rights
+> > but too about duties. The "freedom" above comes from people that take
+> > their time to craft and package things, so they are verily in their
+> > right and duty to make choices - documented, discussed, agreed. And
+> > it's not because just one or two people argue and argue the contrary
+> > that the maintainer should ... "obey". 
+> 
+> As a general principle in a community that values freedom anything that
+> doesn't affect others negatively shouldn't be arbitrarily restricted.
+> Also I never asked anyone else to do anything, I said I would reenable
+> qt3-devel unless there is a COMPELLING (i.e. blocking) reason not to do
+> so.
+
+The COMPELLING reason has already been said. It's because we don't want
+to have software built on a deprecated library in the repository. The
+only reason that we keep the library and only removed the devel package
+is that some external LSB programs could use it, so we need it to be
+compatible with LSB.
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003663.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003663.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..897cc5e79 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003663.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 11:33:04 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:53
+
+> You can't force a maintainer to do something you want and that she
+> judges not right for her set of packages.
+
+We seem to be having a communication issue. Where did I force a maintainer
+to do anything?
+
+I asked if there is any COMPELLING reason for me not to reenable
+qt3-devel.
+If there isn't, then of course I will reenable it.
+
+It wasn't me who then started a long off-topic discussion about imagined or
+otherwise risks of TDE.
+
+> If you can't work here by that, or if you are not happy with how
+> things go here, you are free to discuss this openly with members of
+> the council or of the board to sort it out.
+
+Is there a procedure for that somewhere?
+I would think such discussions are supposed to happen on the MLs (rather
+than in private) and given that board/council members posted in this
+thread I would assume that this discussion is happening here.
+
+Are you saying that the members of the council that posted here in this
+thread would give a different answer if I contacted them formally (how?)
+as members of the council?
+
+TBH I didn't even want any grand discussion, to repeat myself I was just
+trying to find out if there is anything blocking the reenabling of
+qt3-devel.
+(I hope this point is finally clear enough by now)
+
+> So why all the fuss? Take the maintainance of the package, make your
+> changes, submit it and here you are.
+
+If you re-read the thread you will find that I didn't start "the fuss", in
+fact it was started by people expressing fears about TDE and some
+board/council members putting preemptive vetos on TDE.
+
+I have no problem co-maintaining the package (with regards to the devel
+side of it) but I'm not aware of any formal procedure to take maintenance
+of a package.
+Is there such a procedure formalized somewhere?
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003664.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003664.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..031434ffb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003664.html @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Grub version + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Grub version

+ Farfouille + farfouille64 at laposte.net +
+ Fri Mar 25 11:26:48 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Le 21/03/2011 16:10, Stefano Negro a écrit :
+> 
+> 
+> 2011/3/21 Thorsten van Lil <tvl83 at gmx.de <mailto:tvl83 at gmx.de>>
+> 
+>     The last time I installed Ubuntu (one year ago, i think) it detected my mandriva installation and set it up in the grub. Nevertheless it doesn't worked and I had to manipulate grub2 according to boot mandriva. But that was/is a known bug in (ubuntus) grub2.
+> 
+>     Regards,
+>     Thorsten
+> 
+> Ok, I will have a look at the bugs in ubuntu and try to understand it.
+> 
+> 
+> -- 
+> Thanks
+> Stblack
+
+I've posted a patch for grub2 about this sometime ago :
+http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=566102
+
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003665.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003665.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..b4ca8bacb --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003665.html @@ -0,0 +1,86 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 11:38:42 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 11:20
+
+> The COMPELLING reason has already been said. It's because we don't
+> want
+> to have software built on a deprecated library in the repository.
+
+That is not a compelling reason as Xavier's post showed for example.
+
+Having a qt3-devel packages does not automatically imply having packages
+based on it in the official repos.
+
+Also is there an official rule somewhere that specifies:
+
+"because we don't want to have software built on a deprecated library in
+the repository"
+
+or is this simply an arbitrary rule that restricts freedoms of users and
+other packagers?
+
+
+In the early days a 'contrib' repo was suggested for not officially
+supported packages (I was for that idea too), this would be a good
+situation where a 'contrib' repo would solve this matter for everyone.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003666.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003666.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..85320feec --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003666.html @@ -0,0 +1,90 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ nicolas vigier + boklm at mars-attacks.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 11:50:41 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Tux99 wrote:
+
+> 
+> 
+> Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 11:20
+> 
+> > The COMPELLING reason has already been said. It's because we don't
+> > want
+> > to have software built on a deprecated library in the repository.
+> 
+> That is not a compelling reason as Xavier's post showed for example.
+> 
+> Having a qt3-devel packages does not automatically imply having packages
+> based on it in the official repos.
+
+Why do you want to have a qt3-devel package on the official repos, if
+it's not to have other packages based on it ?
+
+> 
+> Also is there an official rule somewhere that specifies:
+> 
+> "because we don't want to have software built on a deprecated library in
+> the repository"
+> 
+> or is this simply an arbitrary rule that restricts freedoms of users and
+> other packagers?
+
+Nothing prevent you from building the package on your computer if you
+want it. But we don't want it on the repository for the reasons already
+explained ...
+
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003667.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003667.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9824e5cca --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003667.html @@ -0,0 +1,106 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Romain d'Alverny + rdalverny at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 11:56:49 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:38, Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+> Also is there an official rule somewhere that specifies:
+>
+> "because we don't want to have software built on a deprecated library in
+> the repository"
+>
+> or is this simply an arbitrary rule that restricts freedoms of users and
+> other packagers?
+
+Nothing is always written down on paper. Saying it's arbitrary because
+it comes out of packagers' experience is a tad extreme. Saying that
+"restricts freedoms of users" is clearly excessive here. Again, it's
+not as if it was a closed product: users can open the box and package
+stuff too (ah yes, it's not dead obvious to do so, but that's
+something we can aim to improve in the coming years).
+
+What will come out of Mageia, in June, won't satisfy everyone. Choices
+will have been done. A choice is arbitrary, always. It always says no
+to something. Implying that this would "restrict freedoms of users"
+would be laughable at best, offensive at worst, especially since this
+is an open source project.
+
+That's not to say that people will just have to help themselves, we
+expect to make something cool and useful, but we're not going to say
+"yes!" to everything and everyone either.
+
+> In the early days a 'contrib' repo was suggested for not officially
+> supported packages (I was for that idea too), this would be a good
+> situation where a 'contrib' repo would solve this matter for everyone.
+
+Please open a bug for that if you think it's worth discussing it again.
+
+Romain
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003668.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003668.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6b5239ff9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003668.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:00:38 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 11:50
+
+> > Having a qt3-devel packages does not automatically imply having
+> > packages
+> > based on it in the official repos.
+> 
+> Why do you want to have a qt3-devel package on the official repos, if
+> it's not to have other packages based on it ?
+
+Why do you NOT want to have it in the repo?
+Does it affect you if it's in the repo?
+Did you read Xavier's post?
+
+> Nothing prevent you from building the package on your computer if you
+> want it. But we don't want it on the repository for the reasons
+> already
+> explained ...
+
+I have only seen arbitrary reasons based on personal preferences, not an
+objective compelling reason.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003669.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003669.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..9ab5af926 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003669.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Romain d'Alverny + rdalverny at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:07:28 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:33, Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+> Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:53
+>> If you can't work here by that, or if you are not happy with how
+>> things go here, you are free to discuss this openly with members of
+>> the council or of the board to sort it out.
+>
+> Is there a procedure for that somewhere?
+> I would think such discussions are supposed to happen on the MLs (rather
+> than in private) and given that board/council members posted in this
+> thread I would assume that this discussion is happening here.
+
+That's still a discussion, where views and directions are given. No
+strict decision.
+
+Because I'm a board member does not mean that everything I say in any
+discussion is a de-facto board view/decision (thankfully). It can hint
+about what my views are and how I would express them in a board
+meeting; but it doesn't mean that this will necessarily be what I'll
+vote for either.
+
+> Are you saying that the members of the council that posted here in this
+> thread would give a different answer if I contacted them formally (how?)
+> as members of the council?
+
+Not necessarily, but it can happen.
+
+As a reminder:
+ - council meeting/decisions are made by team representatives, that
+express their team's views;
+ - board meeting/decisions are made by board members, that express
+their own views, with consideration given to the council (hence teams)
+and community views at large + project objectives & means.
+
+That does not prevent individual members of each, out of these
+instances, to express their own views, without these having the force
+of a rule at once (again, thankfully).
+
+> I have no problem co-maintaining the package (with regards to the devel
+> side of it) but I'm not aware of any formal procedure to take maintenance
+> of a package.
+> Is there such a procedure formalized somewhere?
+
+See that with your mentor.
+
+Romain
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003670.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003670.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..67321e30e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003670.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ nicolas vigier + boklm at mars-attacks.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:08:24 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Tux99 wrote:
+
+> 
+> 
+> Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 11:50
+> 
+> > > Having a qt3-devel packages does not automatically imply having
+> > > packages
+> > > based on it in the official repos.
+> > 
+> > Why do you want to have a qt3-devel package on the official repos, if
+> > it's not to have other packages based on it ?
+> 
+> Why do you NOT want to have it in the repo?
+
+Because we want to be sure that nothing is built on this library.
+
+And you still didn't explain why you want it, if it's not to build
+software based on it.
+
+> I have only seen arbitrary reasons based on personal preferences, not an
+> objective compelling reason.
+
+And do you have any objective compelling reason to include qt3-devel,
+other than an arbitrary reason based on personal preferences ?
+
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003671.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003671.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..5dc7277a5 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003671.html @@ -0,0 +1,105 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:14:16 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 11:56
+
+> A choice is arbitrary, always. It always says no
+> to something. Implying that this would "restrict freedoms of users"
+> would be laughable at best, offensive at worst, especially since this
+> is an open source project.
+
+You seem to be confusing different concepts here, just because a project is
+based on open source software that doesn't automatically guarantee that the
+community based on it is a community that values freedom.
+My concerns here are exactly because I'm getting the feeling that freedom
+is being unnecessarily restricted in Mageia.
+
+And no a choice is definitely not always arbitrary. Choices can be forced
+by unsurmountable limitations or technical incompatibilities or they can
+be arbitrary (i.e. not objectively necessary).
+
+> > In the early days a 'contrib' repo was suggested for not
+> > officially
+> > supported packages (I was for that idea too), this would be a good
+> > situation where a 'contrib' repo would solve this matter for
+> > everyone.
+> 
+> Please open a bug for that if you think it's worth discussing it
+> again.
+
+Is that now the procedure for this?
+
+I would also appreciate it, if you could clarify the procedures with
+regards to the council I asked about in my last reply to you.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003672.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003672.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4d57fb2d9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003672.html @@ -0,0 +1,82 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:18:38 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:08
+
+> Because we want to be sure that nothing is built on this library.
+
+So you are arbitrarily making life harder to people like Xavier and
+myself.
+
+> And you still didn't explain why you want it, if it's not to build
+> software based on it.
+
+Of course I want to build sw based on it, I said so in the first post of
+this thread, but that doesn't automatically imply that t this software
+will be in the Mageia repos (that's a separate issue).
+ 
+> And do you have any objective compelling reason to include qt3-devel,
+> other than an arbitrary reason based on personal preferences ?
+
+See the first post of this thread and indeed even the subject of this
+thread.
+
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003673.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003673.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..274083678 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003673.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ nicolas vigier + boklm at mars-attacks.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:28:45 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Tux99 wrote:
+
+> 
+> 
+> Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:08
+> 
+> > Because we want to be sure that nothing is built on this library.
+> 
+> So you are arbitrarily making life harder to people like Xavier and
+> myself.
+
+And you want to arbitrarily make life a lot harder to people who want
+to make sure the distribution is not based on obsolete and unmaintained
+software.
+
+On the other hand, rebuilding a qt3 package yourself takes a few
+minutes.
+
+> 
+> > And you still didn't explain why you want it, if it's not to build
+> > software based on it.
+> 
+> Of course I want to build sw based on it, I said so in the first post of
+> this thread, but that doesn't automatically imply that t this software
+> will be in the Mageia repos (that's a separate issue).
+
+You're building other software, but you can't rebuild a qt3 package
+yourself ?
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003674.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003674.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8d2686ab1 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003674.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Balcaen John + balcaen.john at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:30:52 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Friday 25 March 2011 08:18:38, Tux99 wrote:
+> Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:08
+> 
+> > Because we want to be sure that nothing is built on this library.
+> 
+> So you are arbitrarily making life harder to people like Xavier and
+> myself.
+If you think so...
+As as already said earlier, if you want to compile TDE, you can also compile 
+qt3 with devel enable because you 'll need to *patch* qt3 to be able to 
+compile TDE >=3.5.12 cf 
+http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/Qt3
+So it's just not about « enable -devel » in qt3 package because i guess you're 
+not going to stick with with TDE 3.5.12 i guess ?
+So i'll repeat myself once more :
+-> enable qt3 with devel support on your box
+-> patch it (because i expect you want to fix some TDE bugs available in 3.5.12 
+& you'll need to patch for TDE from svn > 1214094
+-> compile, test TDE on your computer with a prefix in /usr (&not /opt)
+-> if everything is ok, ask for a space online (i can help if it's really 
+needed for that) to provide TDE in a contrib for more tests
+-> & than if it's ok we can start thinking about including some part of it
+
+Regards,
+
+-- 
+Balcaen John
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003675.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003675.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..24e34f484 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003675.html @@ -0,0 +1,131 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Romain d'Alverny + rdalverny at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:33:18 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:14, Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+> Quote: rdalverny wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 11:56
+>> A choice is arbitrary, always. It always says no
+>> to something. Implying that this would "restrict freedoms of users"
+>> would be laughable at best, offensive at worst, especially since this
+>> is an open source project.
+>
+> You seem to be confusing different concepts here, just because a project is
+> based on open source software that doesn't automatically guarantee that the
+> community based on it is a community that values freedom.
+
+Re-read our project docs, then (announcement, values, code of conduct).
+
+And understand that it's not about the freedom of getting all that you
+want without consideration for what it is, who makes it, and when and
+how.
+
+> My concerns here are exactly because I'm getting the feeling that freedom
+> is being unnecessarily restricted in Mageia.
+
+My feeling here is that, even before the technical issues at hand,
+your attitude (or at least how it is perceived) is very much the cause
+of the crispation.
+
+You seem to take this whole project as if it was a given to you. When
+people object to you based on their experience, you understand that as
+an unappropriate preference and don't even seem to listen to what is
+proposed. When things appear to you not as you expected them, you look
+like ready to dismiss the goodwill of the same people that make this
+whole project possible every single day.
+
+And that taints a lot the points you're trying to make, whatever these
+are. Collaboration is not only about facts, desires, opinions. If you
+are not able to go along well within the packaging team, only in
+discussion, it's unfortunately possible that you won't like it; others
+won't like it either. Nothing good will come out of this.
+
+>> Please open a bug for that if you think it's worth discussing it
+>> again.
+>
+> Is that now the procedure for this?
+
+For opening a bug? https://bugs.mageia.org/ => New, and explain the thing.
+
+> I would also appreciate it, if you could clarify the procedures with
+> regards to the council I asked about in my last reply to you.
+
+The board/council lists are not setup yet, unfortunately.
+
+However you may have seen on -discuss that a preparation document is
+available for next council meeting; although this coming meeting is
+already quite full, you may append your point for the next one.
+
+And that doesn't prevent from asking clearly here or on discuss that
+you want the topic to be reviewed by the council. But even there, you
+being an apprentice, I would suggest you:
+ - first, review this with your mentor;
+ - second, review this again with the packaging team;
+ - third, push this to the council if needed (where it will need to
+have both sides expose their points, for the record and the decision).
+
+Cool. And good luck.
+
+Romain
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003676.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003676.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..cf7832ae9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003676.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Colin Guthrie + mageia at colin.guthr.ie +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:43:28 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
'Twas brillig, and Tux99 at 25/03/11 11:14 did gyre and gimble:
+> My concerns here are exactly because I'm getting the feeling that freedom
+> is being unnecessarily restricted in Mageia.
+
+This is a very, very subjective statement, and I am rather concerned
+that it's being used as some kind of leverage here (perhaps include a
+picture of a puppy with sad eyes too! :p)
+
+"Freedom" is in no way restricted. I see absolutely no problem with
+compiling a qt3 package yourself with the -devel package enabled if you
+want to use it. If you come up with a set of applications that then
+build off it that you want to be included in Mageia repos, then I'm sure
+this can be discussed at the time.
+
+Saying that a certain packaging option "restricts freedom" is a
+statement I find rather offensive. Nothing is restricted, you simply
+have to rebuild things.
+
+Ahmad disabled gvfs-iphone the other day as it requires a newer (and
+apparently less stable) libimobiledevice. Does that "restrict my
+freedom"? No, of course it does not. I don't necessarily agree with the
+decision and I'll test the stability of the new combo in coming weeks to
+see if it can be included officially. This isn't restricting my freedom,
+it's just a process I have to go through. This is exactly the same with
+your qt3-devel issue.
+
+Col
+
+
+
+-- 
+
+Colin Guthrie
+mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie
+http://colin.guthr.ie/
+
+Day Job:
+  Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/]
+Open Source:
+  Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/]
+  PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/]
+  Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003677.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003677.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e0614a3c7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003677.html @@ -0,0 +1,104 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:47:38 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: Balcaen John wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:30
+>
+> As as already said earlier, if you want to compile TDE, you can also
+> compile 
+> qt3 with devel enable because you 'll need to *patch* qt3 to be able to
+> 
+> compile TDE >=3.5.12 cf 
+> http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/Qt3
+
+I'm aware of the patch needed for TDE >=3.5.12, but my current interest is
+3.5.12.
+After that when the patch is needed for future versions then I will look at
+applying the patch to the qt3 package.
+
+> So i'll repeat myself once more :
+> -> enable qt3 with devel support on your box
+> -> patch it (because i expect you want to fix some TDE bugs available
+> in 3.5.12 
+> & you'll need to patch for TDE from svn > 1214094
+> -> compile, test TDE on your computer with a prefix in /usr (&not
+> /opt)
+> -> if everything is ok, ask for a space online (i can help if it's
+> really 
+> needed for that) to provide TDE in a contrib for more tests
+> -> & than if it's ok we can start thinking about including some part of
+> it
+
+As I said earlier in this thread I have of course already rebuilt the qt3
+package on my box and started working on the TDE packages (thanks to work
+done by Tim for Mandriva it's far easier for me now).
+
+The point is with the overwhelmingly negative attitude directed towards me
+even 'thinking' about TDE in Mageia, I don't think my reaction is that
+surprising, or is it?
+
+At this point I don't think there is any chance that TDE ever goes into the
+Mageia repos, given the attitudes I have faced here.
+
+Also this is not really about my ideas as Xavier's post showed, there are
+others too that are affected by these arbitrary and unnecessary
+limitations (they are probably just less outspoken than I am).
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003678.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003678.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..325fdde9d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003678.html @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 12:59:48 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: tux99 wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:47
+----------------------------------------------------
+> Quote: Balcaen John wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:30
+> >
+> > As as already said earlier, if you want to compile TDE, you can
+> > also compile 
+> > qt3 with devel enable because you 'll need to *patch* qt3 to be
+> > able to 
+> > compile TDE >=3.5.12 cf 
+> > http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/Qt3
+> 
+> I'm aware of the patch needed for TDE >=3.5.12, but my current interest
+> is 3.5.12.
+> After that when the patch is needed for future versions then I will
+> look at applying the patch to the qt3 package.
+
+Correction: I meant to say the patch is needed for TDE >3.5.12, TDE 3.5.12
+does not require it AFAIK.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003679.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003679.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3ee9e651c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003679.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Frank Griffin + ftg at roadrunner.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 13:04:38 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
This has really moved away from the question of providing 
+drivers/firmware to a "pissing contest" about whose philosophy the 
+default offerings should represent.
+
+Presumably, FLOSS supporters are satisfied with the state of the current 
+ISOs, and https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=523 would address 
+extending install functionality without changing the content of the 
+existing ISOs, which should be an improvement over where we are now 
+without corrupting the FLOSS purity of the existing ISOs.
+
+I think we should proceed with that approach, and leave the more 
+controversial question of whether the ISOs should be merged for another 
+day.
+
+You can say what you like about newbies or "Aunt Edna", but anyone who 
+can find one ISO for themselves can find two, and the argument about how 
+the drivers/firmware wouldn't take up much space on the DVD goes both 
+ways, since downloading a separate ISO for them is then not that big a 
+deal in terms of bandwidth.
+
+If you can't understand a reasonably verbose panel that says that "your 
+computer's hardware requires our secondary network/drivers/firmware 
+CD/DVD/ISO in order to activate networking", and says that you can find 
+it in the same place you got this disk, be that a network repository or 
+a friend who burned it for you, then you probably need to be reminded to 
+breathe.  Such people are hardly about to be Mageia early-adopters, and 
+we have some time to discuss how we want to deal with them.
+
+Eventually, we may agree to offer a merged ISO.  Better still, since 
+anyone falling into the category of needing that much hand-holding is 
+unlikely to have bought a bare machine and is probably coming from 
+Windows, maybe we ought to provide a Windows app that checks the 
+hardware, downloads the needed ISOs to the Windows filesystem (on what 
+we assume is a working network-enabled system) after suitable prompts to 
+the user, and then enhance the install to look for them there.
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003680.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003680.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..89b436511 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003680.html @@ -0,0 +1,100 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ xi + ctrl.alt.sup at free.fr +
+ Fri Mar 25 13:05:31 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
nicolas vigier wrote:
+> On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, Tux99 wrote:
+> 
+>>
+>> Quote: nicolas vigier wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:08
+>>
+>>> Because we want to be sure that nothing is built on this library.
+>> So you are arbitrarily making life harder to people like Xavier and
+>> myself.
+> 
+> And you want to arbitrarily make life a lot harder to people who want
+> to make sure the distribution is not based on obsolete and unmaintained
+> software.
+> 
+> On the other hand, rebuilding a qt3 package yourself takes a few
+> minutes.
+[...]
+> You're building other software, but you can't rebuild a qt3 package
+> yourself ?
+> 
+
+Sorry but I can't agree here: when I build a software, I like to build 
+_just_ the software, not the whole system around! (I would use a Gentoo 
+otherwise).
+I loved Mandriva because of this point: it was at the same time simple 
+to use AND full of resource to build and customize specialized applications.
+
+If you are on this way, you can also remove QCad*: yes it is old, 
+unmaintained and based on QT3 - but still the best free 2D drawing 
+software on Linux ...
+
+As a user, I still use applications which needs qt3 and with no 
+equivalent based on QT4 ; so I would like qt3-devel to be included in Mageia
+
+I can't see the point in not including packages just because they are 
+unmaintained. They are still used and useful + you have people who want 
+to package them, so ?
+
+Thanks for reading me,
+Xavier
+
+* maybe it is already removed from Mageia, I didn't checked. But I think 
+I can find a lot of other example of obsolete & unmaintained software 
+but still useful which were in Mandriva (eg xmms).
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003681.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003681.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4b70dea52 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003681.html @@ -0,0 +1,84 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 13:10:42 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: Colin Guthrie wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:43
+
+> "Freedom" is in no way restricted. I see absolutely no problem with
+> compiling a qt3 package yourself with the -devel package enabled if
+> you
+> want to use it. 
+
+But isn't one of the reasons for participating in a community distro,
+wanting to share what each of us builds for ourselves?
+
+And if such sharing is being vetoed preemptively in advance without an
+objective reason based on facts but rather based on fears and personal
+opinions, isn't that an unnecessary restriction of freedom that doesn't
+suit a true community distro?
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003682.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003682.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..895414c87 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003682.html @@ -0,0 +1,142 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Margot + margot at otfordduckscomputers.co.uk +
+ Fri Mar 25 13:14:27 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:17:27 +0200 (SAST)
+Buchan Milne <bgmilne at staff.telkomsa.net> wrote:
+
+> 
+> ----- "andre999" <andr55 at laposte.net> wrote:
+> 
+> 
+> > ok.
+> > My though was essentially that firmware is so close to hardware
+> > that its 
+> > actual free/non-free status shouldn't apply - we should treat
+> > it like
+> > 
+> > (almost) part of the hardware.
+> 
+> I would agree, but some people wouldn't.
+> 
+> > As for the drivers, a little more distant from the hardware,
+> > they could 
+> > be in non-free, but I sincerely think that they should be on
+> > all installation isos.
+> 
+> I wouldn't say "all".
+> 
+> > That is, on installing from an iso, all hardware-related
+> > functions should (ideally) be fully functional, even if it
+> > requires using non-free 
+> > drivers.
+> 
+> IMHO, not without informing the user, so that they have the
+> choice (e.g. to consider replacing the hardware by something
+> supported by free software => supporting vendors who support free
+> software).
+> 
+> > The lack of some drivers (or components of drivers) can render a
+> > system 
+> > technically functional, but with important dysfunctions, simply
+> > because 
+> > the required drivers were not available on installation.
+> > That should not happen.
+> 
+> IMHO, that is not *our* choice to make for the user.
+> 
+> > The kernel, firmware and drivers, built on the hardware,
+> > provide a platform on which the application software runs.
+> > True, it is better if drivers are open source, but in my view,
+> > it is application software where open source is the most
+> > important.
+> 
+> But, that is *your* view.
+> 
+> IMHO, some of these questions should be posed to the community.
+> 
+> For example, maybe we should brand ISO releases as something like
+> "Mageia Libre" and "Mageia Gratis" (note, not a "Mageia" and
+> "Mageia limited" or similar, give equal standing to both
+> releases), where Libre would include no non-free software of any
+> kind on the media, users using Libre would never be prompted
+> about non-free software (without opting in, by e.g. installing a
+> different release package). Gratis would include non-free
+> software/firmware required to enable hardware or specific
+> hardware features.
+> 
+> I think it may be worthwhile catering to users who would like to
+> follow FSF Free distribution guidelines as closely as possible,
+> by providing a release that is as close as practically possible
+> to these guidelines (but still making it possible for pragmatic
+> users to have a good experience).
+> 
+> Regards,
+> Buchan
+
+I particularly like the proposed use of the terms Libre and Gratis.
+
+My main concern is that newbie Mageia users - those who come direct
+from Windows, rather than from another variety of Linux - might
+abandon the installation when asked to opt in (or out) of anything
+marked 'non-free', mistakenly thinking that they will have to pay
+for it.
+
+-- 
+Margot
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
+**Otford Ducks Computers**
+We teach, you learn...
+...and, if you don't do your homework, we set the cat on you!
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+
+ + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003683.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003683.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4fc7cea7a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003683.html @@ -0,0 +1,96 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 13:24:32 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
2011/3/25 Frank Griffin <ftg at roadrunner.com>:
+>
+> You can say what you like about newbies or "Aunt Edna", but anyone who can
+> find one ISO for themselves can find two, and the argument about how the
+> drivers/firmware wouldn't take up much space on the DVD goes both ways,
+> since downloading a separate ISO for them is then not that big a deal in
+> terms of bandwidth.
+>
+> If you can't understand a reasonably verbose panel that says that "your
+> computer's hardware requires our secondary network/drivers/firmware
+> CD/DVD/ISO in order to activate networking", and says that you can find it
+> in the same place you got this disk, be that a network repository or a
+> friend who burned it for you, then you probably need to be reminded to
+> breathe.  Such people are hardly about to be Mageia early-adopters, and we
+> have some time to discuss how we want to deal with them.
+
++1
+Especially migrators from Windows will understand this "To activate
+this hadware you need an extra driver" approach - they see it almost
+every time they install a hardware which is not really mainstream (and
+for some mainstream hardware as well).
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003684.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003684.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..341562c81 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003684.html @@ -0,0 +1,143 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ John Balcaen + mikala at mandriva.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 13:27:11 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
2011/3/25 Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org>
+
+>
+>
+> Quote: Balcaen John wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:30
+> >
+> > As as already said earlier, if you want to compile TDE, you can also
+> > compile
+> > qt3 with devel enable because you 'll need to *patch* qt3 to be able to
+> >
+> > compile TDE >=3.5.12 cf
+> > http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/Qt3
+>
+> I'm aware of the patch needed for TDE >=3.5.12, but my current interest is
+> 3.5.12.
+> After that when the patch is needed for future versions then I will look at
+> applying the patch to the qt3 package.
+>
+> > So i'll repeat myself once more :
+> > -> enable qt3 with devel support on your box
+> > -> patch it (because i expect you want to fix some TDE bugs available
+> > in 3.5.12
+> > & you'll need to patch for TDE from svn > 1214094
+> > -> compile, test TDE on your computer with a prefix in /usr (&not
+> > /opt)
+> > -> if everything is ok, ask for a space online (i can help if it's
+> > really
+> > needed for that) to provide TDE in a contrib for more tests
+> > -> & than if it's ok we can start thinking about including some part of
+> > it
+>
+> As I said earlier in this thread I have of course already rebuilt the qt3
+> package on my box and started working on the TDE packages (thanks to work
+> done by Tim for Mandriva it's far easier for me now).
+>
+So we can now work on next step ?
+Assume you can build it without problem, that's it's including without
+problem in mageia, put it on an external repository for more test and after
+discuss again about it's inclusion in mandriva.
+
+
+> The point is with the overwhelmingly negative attitude directed towards me
+> even 'thinking' about TDE in Mageia, I don't think my reaction is that
+> surprising, or is it?
+>
+
+I did not see any negative attitude directed towards you, most of people
+told you that for the moment it was a no-go in order to enable qt3-devel
+until you'll be able to prove that TDE can integrate nicely in Mageia,
+that's all.
+They also explained :
+-> why qt3 was still in mageia & why we did not package the -devel files.
+We could have close this thread far earlier
+
+
+> At this point I don't think there is any chance that TDE ever goes into the
+> Mageia repos, given the attitudes I have faced here.
+>
+I don't see why.
+The only problem we faced is that we're not agree about packaging qt3-devel
+for the moment, that's all. We proposed you to packaged TDE , get it
+reviewed etc etc.
+Some of us indeed ask for a Qt4 TDE and not a Qt3 TDE..
+
+
+
+> Also this is not really about my ideas as Xavier's post showed, there are
+> others too that are affected by these arbitrary and unnecessary
+> limitations (they are probably just less outspoken than I am).
+>
+We started a new distribution and we made choices, one of them was to not
+have Qt3 apps.
+It's not like we were providing Qt3 & others apps & suddently someone
+decides to drop all of them from the distribution... This could be seen as
+arbitrary and unnecessary limitations because suddently you can loose
+functionnality, here we started *without* thoses because we decided to start
+like this.
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+Balcaen John
+Jabber-Id: mikala at jabber.littleboboy.net
+-------------- next part --------------
+An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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+
+ + + +
+

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[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Robert Xu + robxu9 at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 13:53:58 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Hi,
+
+Based on all this conversation here, it is clear that we have gotten off topic.
+My suggestion would be to make a separate repository for Trinity.
+Beware, we also updated Qt to version 3.3.8c (just a few minor
+changes, no idea if bugs remain) while we finish the porting to Qt4.
+
+-- 
+later, Robert Xu
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003686.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003686.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..2651e1d6a --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003686.html @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 14:06:09 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: John Balcaen wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 13:27
+
+> > As I said earlier in this thread I have of course already rebuilt
+> > the qt3
+> > package on my box and started working on the TDE packages (thanks
+> > to work
+> > done by Tim for Mandriva it's far easier for me now).
+> >
+> So we can now work on next step ?
+
+I said I "started working on the TDE packages", not that I have completed
+and fully debugged them. Right now I'm quite demotivated to continue with
+this since I don't see the point given that it won't be included in the
+repos.
+
+Xavier's post about qt3-devel are also being completely ignored and they
+have nothing to do with TDE, but are at least as valid.
+
+> > At this point I don't think there is any chance that TDE ever goes
+> > into the
+> > Mageia repos, given the attitudes I have faced here.
+> >
+> I don't see why.
+
+Maybe because core members of Mageia have explicitly said they are against
+TDE being included in the Mageia repos earlier in this thread?
+
+> We started a new distribution and we made choices, one of them was to
+> not
+> have Qt3 apps.
+
+Who is "we"? I don't recall any debate about this and even less a consensus
+being formed in the community.
+
+> It's not like we were providing Qt3 & others apps & suddently someone
+> decides to drop all of them from the distribution... This could be seen
+> as
+> arbitrary and unnecessary limitations because suddently you can loose
+> functionnality, here we started *without* thoses because we decided to
+> start
+> like this.
+
+Mageia claims to be an upgrade for Mandriva, so yes, this is packages being
+dropped and loss of functionality for existing users, see also Xavier's
+posts.
+
+John, please don't get me wrong you and Blino have been some of the few
+voices of reason in this thread and I appreciate that.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003687.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003687.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..689213d84 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003687.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 14:10:54 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: Robert Xu wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 13:53
+----------------------------------------------------
+> Hi,
+> 
+> Based on all this conversation here, it is clear that we have gotten
+> off topic.
+> My suggestion would be to make a separate repository for Trinity.
+> Beware, we also updated Qt to version 3.3.8c (just a few minor
+> changes, no idea if bugs remain) while we finish the porting to Qt4.
+
+Thanks Robert, I might take up your offer of a repo on the Trinity servers
+if I decide to continue to build Trinty packages for Mageia. But right now
+I'm a bit demotivated to continue with this and in fact to continue with
+Mageia at all.
+
+Maybe I will rather help you to make some great Trinity packages for
+Redhat/Centos since I'm also a Redhat/Centos user, but right now I have to
+first make up my mind.
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003688.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003688.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c0731d6b3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003688.html @@ -0,0 +1,110 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Hoyt Duff + hoytduff at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 14:14:49 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 3/25/11, Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+>
+>
+> Quote: yves wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 09:42
+> ----------------------------------------------------
+>> Hi,
+>> QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ?
+>> So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that "becomes" depreciated
+>> ?
+>
+> You are missing the point. QT3 is already part of Mageia and it wasn't me
+> who added it. All I'm asking is if there is any compelling reason not to
+> enable qt3-devel in the existing qt3
+> source package that is part of Mageia.
+>
+> If there isn't any COMPELLING reason, then qt3-devel should be reenabled as
+> long as someone wishes it.
+>
+
+You're missing their point.
+
+I agree, there is no 'compelling reason' not to offer it. The people
+doing the work just don't want to because enabling it means they have
+to support it. Since Mageia doesn't need it for anything, it makes no
+sense to enable it; it consumes scarce resources for no direct
+benefit. You are free to re-compile QT3 and enable it yourself, which
+is what i suggest.
+
+But I see your point as well. While Mageia may not need it, legacy
+apps may. It would seem to make no sense to deliberately break
+compatibility with legacy apps on purpose. Indeed, one of the
+strengths of Linux is the ability to support legacy apps. And since
+qt3-devel is not a stand-alone package and requires a flip of the
+switch to produce when they are compiling qt3 anyway, it seems only
+logical to go ahead and produce it too.
+
+The people who are responsible for making the final decision have
+decided not to do it, leaving you with two choices: either re-compile
+it yourself to your satisfaction or fork Mageia and make the decisions
+for the forked distro.  Again, i suggest you just re-compile QT3 for
+your personal use and make the -devel.srpm and -devel.rpm available
+for others to use.
+
+You need to move past this issue.
+
+-- 
+Hoyt
+
+ + + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
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[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Thorsten van Lil + tvl83 at gmx.de +
+ Fri Mar 25 14:30:20 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Am 25.03.2011 14:06, schrieb Tux99:
+
+>>> At this point I don't think there is any chance that TDE ever goes
+>>> into the
+>>> Mageia repos, given the attitudes I have faced here.
+>>>
+>> I don't see why.
+
+Just let me summarize the whole discussion from my point of view:
+There are (at least) 2 users how would be happy to have qt3-devel in the 
+mageia repos (to compile software more easy on there local machines).
+One of them volunteers itself to become the maintainer of this package 
+and asked if there are any concerns about it.
+
+Possible concerns are:
+qt3 is deprecated and they (mageia developer) don't wont to have 
+software build on it in the repos, because they don't want the mageia 
+users to use deprecated software.
+-> But both users don't ask for having software which builds on it to 
+have in the repos. Right?
+
+One possible concern which gets in my mind is:
+To mess the repos with unsophisticated packages which probably is only 
+used by very few users, which lets the repos grow to much.
+-> But I don't think there are many of such packages, that this can be 
+become acute.
+
+So, IMHO I don't really get the point why it should be a problem if 
+Tux99 agrees to maintain this package.
+
+The whole debate about TDE is something different and shouldn't 
+influence this discussion.
+
+Regards,
+Thorsten
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003690.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003690.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3af3ecef7 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003690.html @@ -0,0 +1,135 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Colin Guthrie + mageia at colin.guthr.ie +
+ Fri Mar 25 14:36:15 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
'Twas brillig, and Tux99 at 25/03/11 12:10 did gyre and gimble:
+> 
+> 
+> Quote: Colin Guthrie wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 12:43
+> 
+>> "Freedom" is in no way restricted. I see absolutely no problem with
+>> compiling a qt3 package yourself with the -devel package enabled if
+>> you
+>> want to use it. 
+> 
+> But isn't one of the reasons for participating in a community distro,
+> wanting to share what each of us builds for ourselves?
+> 
+> And if such sharing is being vetoed preemptively in advance without an
+> objective reason based on facts but rather based on fears and personal
+> opinions, isn't that an unnecessary restriction of freedom that doesn't
+> suit a true community distro?
+
+Compare it to sharing an apartment/house with some friends.
+
+Do you want the other people to leave their unwashed clothes all over
+the laundry room, or unwashed dishes piling up in the kitchen? Or would
+you prefer that everyone works together to keep things neat and tidy?
+
+If you take each individual freedom to it's logical extreme, then
+sharing a house would allow for the messiest person in the world to
+share space with the tidiest. Each has the right to their own feelings
+and ways of being, but in reality such a combination simply wouldn't
+work. There has to be middle ground that is reached. That's the whole
+point in a community. You cannot expect everyone to automatically agree
+with your take on things. It's clear that some people do agree with your
+and some don't. This shouldn't be overly surprising.
+
+Personally I'd rather keep things tidy and not enable things unless
+there is a direct need for it (e.g. a dependency). If and when there is
+an app that requires qt3 in the official repos, then that is such a dep,
+but until then, it makes sense to keep things neat, especially when
+rebuilding qt3 with the devel package (and patching it accordingly it
+seems) is such a trivial step compared to the relatively massive job of
+the TDE itself. If TDE is going to be made available in Mageia directly
+then by all means, qt3 will have to be patched and updated accordingly,
+but it seems rather pre-emptive to get worried about something that
+remains to be proven at the current time. Real reasons are better than
+hypothetical ones.
+
+And if I'm honest, you've referred to other peoples opinions continually
+as "non-objective" while I'm pretty sure all the reasons I've seen on
+this thread (and my own feelings) are perfectly objective and logical
+and I find it rather dismissive that someone should belittle others by
+continually stating they are not. They are not non-objective, you just
+happen not to agree with them! That's fine, you are perfectly within
+your rights to disagree, just don't confuse the two.
+
+There is a very clear route forward and it's incredibly simple, just
+rebuild your own QT3. As said above, if/when the whole of TDM goes into
+Mageia, then the "official" qt3 can be adjusted as it's needed.
+
+It was Donald Knuth who said "Premature optimization is the root of all
+evil", and the same can be said of "Speculative Packaging" IMO!
+
+Col
+
+
+
+
+-- 
+
+Colin Guthrie
+mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie
+http://colin.guthr.ie/
+
+Day Job:
+  Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/]
+Open Source:
+  Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/]
+  PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/]
+  Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003691.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003691.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..7e5e6082d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003691.html @@ -0,0 +1,72 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Tux99 + tux99-mga at uridium.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 14:42:27 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+
+Quote: Colin Guthrie wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 14:36
+
+> It was Donald Knuth who said "Premature optimization is the root of
+> all
+> evil", and the same can be said of "Speculative Packaging" IMO!
+
+Actually you just made my point here, excluding qt3-devel out of 'neatness'
+is quite clearly premature optimization, therefore "the root of all evil"
+as you wisely quote... :)
+
+-- 
+Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
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[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Colin Guthrie + mageia at colin.guthr.ie +
+ Fri Mar 25 14:51:27 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
'Twas brillig, and Tux99 at 25/03/11 13:42 did gyre and gimble:
+> 
+> 
+> Quote: Colin Guthrie wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 14:36
+> 
+>> It was Donald Knuth who said "Premature optimization is the root of
+>> all
+>> evil", and the same can be said of "Speculative Packaging" IMO!
+> 
+> Actually you just made my point here, excluding qt3-devel out of 'neatness'
+> is quite clearly premature optimization, therefore "the root of all evil"
+> as you wisely quote... :)
+
+"optimization" and "concious decision" are two very different things,
+but feel free to distort it to make yourself feel better if you like!
+
+And I'm not going to get into a debate about semantics here. Such
+debates are for late nights and a few good whiskies... :p
+
+Col
+
+-- 
+
+Colin Guthrie
+mageia(at)colin.guthr.ie
+http://colin.guthr.ie/
+
+Day Job:
+  Tribalogic Limited [http://www.tribalogic.net/]
+Open Source:
+  Mageia Contributor [http://www.mageia.org/]
+  PulseAudio Hacker [http://www.pulseaudio.org/]
+  Trac Hacker [http://trac.edgewall.org/]
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003693.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003693.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..cbe41dd7d --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003693.html @@ -0,0 +1,60 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Thierry Vignaud + thierry.vignaud at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 15:22:51 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 25 March 2011 13:27, John Balcaen <mikala at mandriva.org> wrote:
+> The only problem we faced is that we're not agree about packaging qt3-devel
+
+Totally off topic: are you french :-) ?
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003694.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003694.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..20d2715e0 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003694.html @@ -0,0 +1,109 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ xi + ctrl.alt.sup at free.fr +
+ Fri Mar 25 16:40:07 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Hoyt Duff wrote:
+> On 3/25/11, Tux99 <tux99-mga at uridium.org> wrote:
+>>
+>> Quote: yves wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 09:42
+>> ----------------------------------------------------
+>>> Hi,
+>>> QT4 is released since 2005, about... 6 years ?
+>>> So, why is it usefull to maintain a package that "becomes" depreciated
+>>> ?
+>> You are missing the point. QT3 is already part of Mageia and it wasn't me
+>> who added it. All I'm asking is if there is any compelling reason not to
+>> enable qt3-devel in the existing qt3
+>> source package that is part of Mageia.
+>>
+>> If there isn't any COMPELLING reason, then qt3-devel should be reenabled as
+>> long as someone wishes it.
+>>
+> 
+> You're missing their point.
+> 
+> I agree, there is no 'compelling reason' not to offer it. The people
+> doing the work just don't want to because enabling it means they have
+> to support it. _Since Mageia doesn't need it for anything_, it makes no
+> sense to enable it; it consumes scarce resources for no direct
+> benefit. You are free to re-compile QT3 and enable it yourself, which
+> is what i suggest.
+[...]
+> 
+
+Hi again,
+
+You are wrong, there are software which need qt3-devel, but they have 
+been removed from Mageia!
+I have just taken a look at Mageia "missing package" list, and QCad will 
+be removed because it is built against QT3 (quoting: "qcad: stewb - 
+noimport(started to do this one, but as I understand we'd like to drop 
+Qt3, so I stopped)")
+
+Remember: QCad is a 2D professional drawing tool and it has NO 
+equivalent on Linux, so removing it is clearly a regression compared to 
+Mandriva.
+
+Sad to see that "you" are stuck at removing as useful packages as 
+qt3-devel. Contrarily to what you wrote, It _is_ still needed (not only 
+for my personal needs) and removing it has side effects because it 
+implies removing software (with no replacement) from the mandriva list ...
+
+Please reconsider your choices,
+Xavier
+
+P.S. I use Mandriva and QCad at work.
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003695.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003695.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3de14cf86 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003695.html @@ -0,0 +1,71 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Anssi Hannula + anssi.hannula at iki.fi +
+ Fri Mar 25 16:47:50 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 25.03.2011 14:04, Frank Griffin wrote:
+> Presumably, FLOSS supporters are satisfied with the state of the current
+> ISOs,
+
+I'd not presume that, as as previously stated they contain firmware
+files without source code even now.
+
+-- 
+Anssi Hannula
+
+ + + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003696.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003696.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..f3e574587 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003696.html @@ -0,0 +1,83 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ nicolas vigier + boklm at mars-attacks.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 16:53:12 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, 25 Mar 2011, xi wrote:
+
+>
+> Hi again,
+>
+> You are wrong, there are software which need qt3-devel, but they have been 
+> removed from Mageia!
+> I have just taken a look at Mageia "missing package" list, and QCad will be 
+> removed because it is built against QT3 (quoting: "qcad: stewb - 
+> noimport(started to do this one, but as I understand we'd like to drop Qt3, 
+> so I stopped)")
+>
+> Remember: QCad is a 2D professional drawing tool and it has NO equivalent 
+> on Linux, so removing it is clearly a regression compared to Mandriva.
+
+Mandriva is also removing qt3. As well as most distributions.
+
+So if QCad developers want their software to be usable on recent
+distributions, they need to port it to qt4.
+
+And it seems some people are working on it, and have it working :
+http://www.qcad.org/rsforum/viewtopic.php?t=1162&sid=34c9830d18b8abe49c13e31b08496d6f
+
+If you want it, you can help making a QCad package using qt4.
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
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[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 17:05:54 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
2011/3/25 xi <ctrl.alt.sup at free.fr>:
+> Hoyt Duff wrote:
+>>
+>> I agree, there is no 'compelling reason' not to offer it. The people
+>> doing the work just don't want to because enabling it means they have
+>> to support it. _Since Mageia doesn't need it for anything_, it makes no
+>> sense to enable it; it consumes scarce resources for no direct
+>> benefit. You are free to re-compile QT3 and enable it yourself, which
+>> is what i suggest.
+>
+> You are wrong, there are software which need qt3-devel, but they have been
+> removed from Mageia!
+> I have just taken a look at Mageia "missing package" list, and QCad will be
+> removed because it is built against QT3 (quoting: "qcad: stewb -
+> noimport(started to do this one, but as I understand we'd like to drop Qt3,
+> so I stopped)")
+
+Well, without going into any technical details and only by looking at
+the basic question, there seem to be:
+
+ - Some users who are working with old (but still usable and working!)
+software who are using this with Mandriva, so these users would like
+to be able to use it in another distribution.
+
+ - The devels of that other distribution had to decide which software
+they will import into their new[1] distribution. Given the low
+ressources in manpower at this point in time they had to decide to
+leave this or that package out, especially when the import of such a
+package demands extended support. This means no harm to the users of
+those packages, they can still use them the way they did until now
+(with Mandriva in this case). Therefore the argument by those users
+that they are left out in the rain if this software will not be
+imported is not valid.
+
+Looks to me a valid decision of the devels of the new distribution.
+
+[1] Please do not argue that Mageia is a sequel to Mandriva (somebody
+did that in this thread) because it is not. If Mandriva would have
+closed shop, then you may have a point in asking for some continouity.
+But this is not the case.
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003698.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003698.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..afaea1dc8 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003698.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Antoine Pitrou + solipsis at pitrou.net +
+ Fri Mar 25 17:34:15 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
+My two cents as an user:
+
+> Presumably, FLOSS supporters are satisfied with the state of the current 
+> ISOs, and https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=523 would address 
+> extending install functionality without changing the content of the 
+> existing ISOs, which should be an improvement over where we are now 
+> without corrupting the FLOSS purity of the existing ISOs.
+
+Not all "FLOSS supporters" believe that ISOs should be "pure".
+I would label myself a FLOSS partisan (having contributed in FLOSS
+projects for 10 years), and yet I don't really make a fuss if an
+ISO contains non-free software, especially if such software is
+necessary for good use of some peripherals...
+
+By labelling "FLOSS supporters" only the partisans of aforementioned
+"purity" (a term which, in any political context, should really give you
+shivers), you are making the community as a whole a disservice. It is
+not "the purists" vs. "the realists", or some other caricatural
+reduction of reality.
+
+> You can say what you like about newbies or "Aunt Edna", but anyone who 
+> can find one ISO for themselves can find two, and the argument about how 
+> the drivers/firmware wouldn't take up much space on the DVD goes both 
+> ways, since downloading a separate ISO for them is then not that big a 
+> deal in terms of bandwidth.
+
+Having one ISOs instead of several is not about minimizing download
+times, it's about providing a better user experience.
+
+OTOH, if aforementioned non-free software can be downloaded
+automatically over the Internet (especially during installation), then
+the whole issue becomes moot.
+
+</my 2 cents>
+
+Regards
+
+Antoine.
+
+
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003699.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003699.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..82192cddd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003699.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Frank Griffin + ftg at roadrunner.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 17:46:27 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 03/25/2011 11:47 AM, Anssi Hannula wrote:
+> On 25.03.2011 14:04, Frank Griffin wrote:
+>> Presumably, FLOSS supporters are satisfied with the state of the current
+>> ISOs,
+> I'd not presume that, as as previously stated they contain firmware
+> files without source code even now.
+>
+Perhaps I should have phrased this as "however FLOSS supporters feel 
+about the current situation, implementing bug#523 won't make them feel 
+any worse".
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003700.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003700.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..55043c682 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003700.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Wolfgang Bornath + molch.b at googlemail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 17:48:14 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
2011/3/25 Antoine Pitrou <solipsis at pitrou.net>:
+>
+>
+> OTOH, if aforementioned non-free software can be downloaded
+> automatically over the Internet (especially during installation), then
+> the whole issue becomes moot.
+
+The start of this debate (which has grown very far beyond the initial
+request) was how to add non-free drivers/firmware for WiFi or special
+network cards to the installation process for users who can not
+download anything during installation because such drivers/firmware
+are needed for internet connection. So, this issue can not become moot
+:)
+
+But everything else (graphic, sound, webcam, etc.) can be installed
+from the internet after installation if necessary. This has never been
+an issue.
+
+-- 
+wobo
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
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+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003701.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003701.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..ddd495dcd --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003701.html @@ -0,0 +1,101 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

+ Frank Griffin + ftg at roadrunner.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 17:58:50 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 03/25/2011 12:34 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
+> My two cents as an user:
+>
+>> Presumably, FLOSS supporters are satisfied with the state of the current
+>> ISOs, and https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=523 would address
+>> extending install functionality without changing the content of the
+>> existing ISOs, which should be an improvement over where we are now
+>> without corrupting the FLOSS purity of the existing ISOs.
+> Not all "FLOSS supporters" believe that ISOs should be "pure".
+> I would label myself a FLOSS partisan (having contributed in FLOSS
+> projects for 10 years), and yet I don't really make a fuss if an
+> ISO contains non-free software, especially if such software is
+> necessary for good use of some peripherals...
+
+Neither do I.
+
+> By labelling "FLOSS supporters" only the partisans of aforementioned
+> "purity" (a term which, in any political context, should really give you
+> shivers), you are making the community as a whole a disservice. It is
+> not "the purists" vs. "the realists", or some other caricatural
+> reduction of reality.
+
+The labeling was for typographical convenience, simply a way to 
+differentiate one camp in this discussion from the other, and was pretty 
+obviously not a part of the intrinsic arguments.
+
+I'm on neither side in this; my interest is in having the install 
+support wireless networking, which has nothing to do with whether there 
+is one ISO or two.  All the necessary files are already in the distro, I 
+just want the install to use them if they're available.  That is not a 
+FLOSS/non-FLOSS/sorta-FLOSS issue.  I install cooker/cauldron only, and 
+I haven't installed from an ISO since I got involved with cooker except 
+as an occasional test.
+
+I don't care how many ISOs there are, or whether the installer gets 
+these files from the moon.  I just figure I have a better chance of 
+seeing this implemented if I point out that two ISOs steps on as few 
+toes as possible, given the current contents of the DVDs.  If you want 
+to take up cudgels about merging them for an additional 1% or so of user 
+experience, be my guest.
+
+
+
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003702.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003702.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d9bd5e8fa --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003702.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE =?utf-8?q?3=2E5=09successor?=) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE =?utf-8?q?3=2E5=09successor?=)

+ Maarten Vanraes + maarten.vanraes at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 19:45:57 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Op vrijdag 25 maart 2011 12:43:28 schreef Colin Guthrie:
+> 'Twas brillig, and Tux99 at 25/03/11 11:14 did gyre and gimble:
+[...]
+> "Freedom" is in no way restricted.
+[...]
+
+totally off topic here, but:
+
+Freedom is always restricted, if there is unrestricted freedom, other people 
+will not be free again to choose what they want.
+
+Rules are there to restrict the freedom, so everyone has a bit of freedom...
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003703.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003703.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8aa6bb4cf --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003703.html @@ -0,0 +1,65 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1 + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1

+ Thierry Vignaud + thierry.vignaud at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 19:52:31 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 25 March 2011 19:29, Mageia Team <buildsystem-daemon at mageia.org> wrote:
+> ahmad <ahmad> 0.6-5.mga1:
+> + Revision: 77425
+> - bump rel and submit to core/testing to build against libimobiledevice-1.1.0
+
+This is core/updates_testing, not core/testing.
+Bumping release is uneeded in order to upload to core/updates_testing IMHO
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003704.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003704.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8a34cb602 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003704.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Fwd: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1 + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Fwd: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1

+ Ahmad Samir + ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 19:59:05 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
(Damn google "Reply" button).
+
+
+---------- Forwarded message ----------
+From: Ahmad Samir <ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com>
+Date: 25 March 2011 20:58
+Subject: Re: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1
+To: Thierry Vignaud <thierry.vignaud at gmail.com>
+
+
+On 25 March 2011 20:52, Thierry Vignaud <thierry.vignaud at gmail.com> wrote:
+> On 25 March 2011 19:29, Mageia Team <buildsystem-daemon at mageia.org> wrote:
+>> ahmad <ahmad> 0.6-5.mga1:
+>> + Revision: 77425
+>> - bump rel and submit to core/testing to build against libimobiledevice-1.1.0
+>
+> This is core/updates_testing, not core/testing.
+> Bumping release is uneeded in order to upload to core/updates_testing IMHO
+>
+
+The repo name in installations is "Core Testing", so the inconsistency
+is not fully my fault :)
+
+And bumping the release, is just to make it easier for users who
+already have clementine installed to update the package (without
+having to use --replacepkgs...) to test it.
+
+--
+Ahmad Samir
+
+
+
+-- 
+Ahmad Samir
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003705.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003705.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..d3e26cf9c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003705.html @@ -0,0 +1,103 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Maarten Vanraes + maarten.vanraes at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 20:00:19 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Op vrijdag 25 maart 2011 10:39:28 schreef Tux99:
+> Quote: xi wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 10:32
+> 
+> > As always, please don't drop too fast the packages that you find
+> > useless. There are still some users like me who may use QT3.
+> > 
+> > I still use some "not so common" applications (eg tools for electronic)
+> > 
+> > which needs QT3 and it is always much more convenient to simply do a
+> > "urpmi libqt3-devel" than downloading and compiling qt3 ... especially
+> > 
+> > if libqt3 is already included in Mageia !
+> 
+> Exactly my point, thanks Xavier.
+> 
+> This is about not restricting other people's freedoms.
+
+iirc, it was mentioned somewhere that qt3 (without devel) was only submitted 
+to satisfy the lsb requirements (which are ridiculously unrealisticly outdated 
+imho, but there is talk of upgrading).
+
+I read this as: 'we just put it there, but noone even tested it to see if it's 
+actually working', it might as well have been an empty package or not there.
+
+i think that during this huge (boring) thread to me, this has been 
+misunderstood a few times.
+
+as some people mentioned:
+- make TDE build and run well locally (because TDE obviously is what you want, 
+and it does give a good test-run on qt3 on almost all parts)
+- co-install it with KDE4 and make it both run very well
+- discuss with current maintainers/packagers/your mentor of qt3 how to 
+support/maintain this (i suspect there is no real maintainer, but check the 
+commit logs who worked on it).
+- after all these steps (quite a bit of work), start committing your stuff and 
+submitting to core/testing
+- organize a few testers to test it out
+- move to core/release
+
+I don't think anyone disagrees with these steps, if they do, you could have 
+packaging leaders/council decide on this.
+(IMHO, it would be nice to test this procedure of council decisions, i would 
+love to see this happening)
+
+I suspect due to the freeze that this will hit cauldron after mageia release 1
+
+good luck
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003706.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003706.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e197a8b7c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003706.html @@ -0,0 +1,64 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Fwd: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1 + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Fwd: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1

+ Thierry Vignaud + thierry.vignaud at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 20:09:09 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 25 March 2011 19:59, Ahmad Samir <ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com> wrote:
+> And bumping the release, is just to make it easier for users who
+> already have clementine installed to update the package (without
+> having to use --replacepkgs...) to test it.
+
+I didn't though about that :-(
+
+ + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003707.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003707.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..aa55226f3 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003707.html @@ -0,0 +1,87 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager

+ Remy CLOUARD + shikamaru at mandriva.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 20:45:21 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Hello there,
+
+We started mentoring 2 months ago with oliver, and as we are both very
+busy at work, it took quite some time for us to get ready. But oliver
+did a very nice training and I would like you to welcome him as a new
+packager :-)
+
+So, if you see packages from obgr_seneca, don’t hesitate to thank him
+(or shout at him if it doesn’t work :p)
+
+Welcome Oliver !
+
+As I said, this is just the beginning, the hardest part is yet to come,
+but I think you will do a very nice job, do not hesitate to ping anyone
+of us if you have some troubles with some packages.
+
+Best regards,
+-- 
+Rémy CLOUARD
+() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
+/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
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+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003708.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003708.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..db5f2a3bc --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003708.html @@ -0,0 +1,92 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager

+ Anne nicolas + ennael1 at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 20:49:53 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
2011/3/25 Remy CLOUARD <shikamaru at mandriva.org>:
+> Hello there,
+>
+> We started mentoring 2 months ago with oliver, and as we are both very
+> busy at work, it took quite some time for us to get ready. But oliver
+> did a very nice training and I would like you to welcome him as a new
+> packager :-)
+>
+> So, if you see packages from obgr_seneca, don’t hesitate to thank him
+> (or shout at him if it doesn’t work :p)
+>
+> Welcome Oliver !
+
+Indeed welcome in hell :)
+
+>
+> As I said, this is just the beginning, the hardest part is yet to come,
+> but I think you will do a very nice job, do not hesitate to ping anyone
+> of us if you have some troubles with some packages.
+>
+> Best regards,
+> --
+> Rémy CLOUARD
+> () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
+> /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
+>
+
+
+
+-- 
+Anne
+http://www.mageia.org
+
+ + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003709.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003709.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..362346a86 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003709.html @@ -0,0 +1,78 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager

+ Balcaen John + balcaen.john at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 20:55:45 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Friday 25 March 2011 16:45:21, Remy CLOUARD wrote:
+> Hello there,
+> 
+> We started mentoring 2 months ago with oliver, and as we are both very
+> busy at work, it took quite some time for us to get ready. But oliver
+> did a very nice training and I would like you to welcome him as a new
+> packager :-)
+> 
+> So, if you see packages from obgr_seneca, don’t hesitate to thank him
+> (or shout at him if it doesn’t work :p)
+> 
+> Welcome Oliver !
+Welcome oliver :)
+(& good luck with ayatana \o/ )
+
+-- 
+Balcaen John
+
+ + + + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003710.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003710.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..c9640b7d9 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003710.html @@ -0,0 +1,68 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager

+ Maarten Vanraes + maarten.vanraes at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 21:19:12 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Op vrijdag 25 maart 2011 20:49:53 schreef Anne nicolas:
+> 2011/3/25 Remy CLOUARD <shikamaru at mandriva.org>:
+[...]
+> > Welcome Oliver !
+> 
+> Indeed welcome in hell :)
+[...]
+
+Welcome to hell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGrQMD6Uqc
+
+ + + + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003711.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003711.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..3e4057120 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003711.html @@ -0,0 +1,123 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor) + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] qt3-devel needed for Trinitydesktop (KDE 3.5 successor)

+ Remy CLOUARD + shikamaru at mandriva.org +
+ Fri Mar 25 21:22:03 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 02:10:54PM +0100, Tux99 wrote:
+> 
+> 
+> Quote: Robert Xu wrote on Fri, 25 March 2011 13:53
+> ----------------------------------------------------
+> > Hi,
+> > 
+> > Based on all this conversation here, it is clear that we have gotten
+> > off topic.
+> > My suggestion would be to make a separate repository for Trinity.
+> > Beware, we also updated Qt to version 3.3.8c (just a few minor
+> > changes, no idea if bugs remain) while we finish the porting to Qt4.
+> 
+> Thanks Robert, I might take up your offer of a repo on the Trinity servers
+> if I decide to continue to build Trinty packages for Mageia. But right now
+> I'm a bit demotivated to continue with this and in fact to continue with
+> Mageia at all.
+> 
+> Maybe I will rather help you to make some great Trinity packages for
+> Redhat/Centos since I'm also a Redhat/Centos user, but right now I have to
+> first make up my mind.
+> 
+> -- 
+> Mageia ML Forum Gateway: http://mageia.linuxtech.net/forum/
+You’re quite quick to demotivate yourself. I waited nearly 2 years to
+have my window manager inside my distribution, because it relies on a
+specific compile option on a much used package (cairo).
+
+During all that time, I _listened_ to people, and though it was kinda
+heartbraking to admit they were right, I had to understand the reason
+behind this.
+
+Recently, I finally decided to get my hands dirty and to make cairo
+available for every package, while at the same time providing a mean to
+get the other cairo available for my package.
+
+It seems you do not want to listen to other people concerns, that’s bad,
+because that prevents you to find a solution that will make everyone
+happy.
+
+Now, people suggested you to do some things, and provide a way to have
+what you want, please consider it, you’ll understand that people are not
+against having qt3-devel if there is really such a need, and that TDE
+can be included once it has been proven to not wreck havok in the
+distribution (I know these last words are hard to read, because I was in
+the same situation, but that concern is real).
+
+Reassure people, by providing builds in a separate place so that people
+can test having TDE and KDE, perhaps help you fix issues !
+
+I wish you good luck for this, this is not an easy task, but please
+change your way of doing things, it’s not by shouting louder than the
+others that you will get something (you nearly replied to everyone in
+this thread), people don’t want words, people want acts. You have the
+freedom to act, take this opportunity :-)
+
+my 2 cents
+-- 
+Rémy CLOUARD
+() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
+/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
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+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003712.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003712.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..8d84f659c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003712.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Fwd: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1 + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Fwd: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1

+ Thomas Backlund + tmb at iki.fi +
+ Fri Mar 25 21:25:25 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Ahmad Samir skrev 25.3.2011 20:59:
+>
+> The repo name in installations is "Core Testing", so the inconsistency
+> is not fully my fault :)
+>
+
+Not anymore...
+
+I fixed the naming 12 days ago when I added media.cfg to svn.
+
+But since you already have the medias added, you have the old name.
+
+--
+Thomas
+
+ + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003713.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003713.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..916641fdf --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003713.html @@ -0,0 +1,76 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Fwd: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1 + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Fwd: [RPM] cauldron core/updates_testing clementine-0.6-5.mga1

+ Ahmad Samir + ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 21:36:10 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 25 March 2011 22:25, Thomas Backlund <tmb at iki.fi> wrote:
+> Ahmad Samir skrev 25.3.2011 20:59:
+>>
+>> The repo name in installations is "Core Testing", so the inconsistency
+>> is not fully my fault :)
+>>
+>
+> Not anymore...
+>
+> I fixed the naming 12 days ago when I added media.cfg to svn.
+>
+> But since you already have the medias added, you have the old name.
+>
+> --
+> Thomas
+>
+
+OK, thanks for the heads up (I'll remove then re-add them).
+
+-- 
+Ahmad Samir
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003714.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003714.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..4ea062232 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003714.html @@ -0,0 +1,85 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager

+ Ahmad Samir + ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 21:37:16 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 25 March 2011 21:45, Remy CLOUARD <shikamaru at mandriva.org> wrote:
+> Hello there,
+>
+> We started mentoring 2 months ago with oliver, and as we are both very
+> busy at work, it took quite some time for us to get ready. But oliver
+> did a very nice training and I would like you to welcome him as a new
+> packager :-)
+>
+> So, if you see packages from obgr_seneca, don’t hesitate to thank him
+> (or shout at him if it doesn’t work :p)
+>
+> Welcome Oliver !
+>
+> As I said, this is just the beginning, the hardest part is yet to come,
+> but I think you will do a very nice job, do not hesitate to ping anyone
+> of us if you have some troubles with some packages.
+>
+> Best regards,
+> --
+> Rémy CLOUARD
+> () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
+> /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
+>
+
+Welcome!
+
+-- 
+Ahmad Samir
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003715.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003715.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..6314223ad --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003715.html @@ -0,0 +1,70 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager

+ Oliver Burger + oliver.bgr at googlemail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 22:01:31 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Ahmad Samir <ahmadsamir3891 at gmail.com> schrieb am 25.03.2011
+> On 25 March 2011 21:45, Remy CLOUARD <shikamaru at mandriva.org> wrote:
+> > Welcome Oliver !
+> Welcome!
+
+I don't want this to sound like a stupid oscar thank you speach. But 
+thanks for your welcome. I hope we will create a wonderful 
+distribution together and thank you very much Remy for a superb 
+mentoring (and you Ahmad for being there answering my questions).
+
+I do my very best to repay you with my work!
+
+Oliver
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003716.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003716.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..aa5c215ec --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003716.html @@ -0,0 +1,88 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager

+ Cazzaniga Sandro + cazzaniga.sandro at gmail.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 22:21:49 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
Le 25/03/2011 21:37, Ahmad Samir a écrit :
+> On 25 March 2011 21:45, Remy CLOUARD <shikamaru at mandriva.org> wrote:
+>> > Hello there,
+>> >
+>> > We started mentoring 2 months ago with oliver, and as we are both very
+>> > busy at work, it took quite some time for us to get ready. But oliver
+>> > did a very nice training and I would like you to welcome him as a new
+>> > packager :-)
+>> >
+>> > So, if you see packages from obgr_seneca, don’t hesitate to thank him
+>> > (or shout at him if it doesn’t work :p)
+>> >
+>> > Welcome Oliver !
+>> >
+>> > As I said, this is just the beginning, the hardest part is yet to come,
+>> > but I think you will do a very nice job, do not hesitate to ping anyone
+>> > of us if you have some troubles with some packages.
+>> >
+>> > Best regards,
+>> > --
+>> > Rémy CLOUARD
+>> > () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
+>> > /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
+welcome!
+
+-- 
+Sandro Cazzaniga
+IRC: Kharec (irc.freenode.net)
+Software/Hardware geek
+Perl dev
+Mageia and Mandriva contributor
+
+ + + + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003717.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003717.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a1669fa4e --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003717.html @@ -0,0 +1,67 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] Please welcome a new packager

+ Frank Griffin + ftg at roadrunner.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 22:50:53 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
On 03/25/2011 03:49 PM, Anne nicolas wrote:
+> 2011/3/25 Remy CLOUARD<shikamaru at mandriva.org>:
+>> Welcome Oliver !
+> Indeed welcome in hell :)
+
+You're certainly a recognized name around here, and best of luck.  
+@Anne, in my old company, when a developer reached lofty enough stature 
+to be invited to executive management meetings as a regular technical 
+consultant, we used to say "welcome to the kids' table" (I'm not sure if 
+that's an English-only idiom; it means the small table set up for 
+children at holiday dinners to keep them from annoying the adults) :-)
+
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003718.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003718.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..dffb2384c --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/003718.html @@ -0,0 +1,61 @@ + + + + [Mageia-dev] lxde under gdm ? + + + + + + + + + +

[Mageia-dev] lxde under gdm ?

+ Frank Griffin + ftg at roadrunner.com +
+ Fri Mar 25 23:13:08 CET 2011 +

+
+ +
This is probably an incredibly stupid question, but is LXDE expected to 
+work in conjunction with GDM ?
+
+I thought I'd give LXDE a try, but both from my usual ID and a new ID, 
+it crashes X (or appears to) and flips right back to the DM screen.
+
+I know there are LXDE advocates here, so before I enter a bug report I 
+thought I'd ask the obvious question.
+
+ + +
+

+ +
+More information about the Mageia-dev +mailing list
+ diff --git a/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/author.html b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/author.html new file mode 100644 index 000000000..a6b0c66a2 --- /dev/null +++ b/zarb-ml/mageia-dev/20110325/author.html @@ -0,0 +1,457 @@ + + + + The Mageia-dev 25 March 2011 Archive by author + + + + + +

25 March 2011 Archives by author

+ +

Starting: Fri Mar 25 01:29:34 CET 2011
+ Ending: Fri Mar 25 23:13:08 CET 2011
+ Messages: 82

+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Mar 25 23:13:08 CET 2011
+ Archived on: Fri Mar 25 23:13:16 CET 2011 +

+

+

+

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25 March 2011 Archives by date

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+ Ending: Fri Mar 25 23:13:08 CET 2011
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+

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25 March 2011 Archives by subject

+ +

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+ Ending: Fri Mar 25 23:13:08 CET 2011
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+

+

+ Last message date: + Fri Mar 25 23:13:08 CET 2011
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25 March 2011 Archives by thread

+ +

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+ Ending: Fri Mar 25 23:13:08 CET 2011
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+

+

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