[Mageia-dev] Non-free firmwares in installer

Fri Mar 25 01:29:34 CET 2011

JA Magallón a écrit :
+>
+> On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 17:41:18 -0400, andre999<andr55 at laposte.net>  wrote:
+>
+>> Romain d'Alverny a écrit :
+>>>
+>>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 20:08, Anssi Hannula<anssi.hannula at iki.fi>   wrote:
+>>>> On 24.03.2011 19:35, Romain d'Alverny wrote:
+>>>>> Summary (from http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=licensing_policy):
+>>>>>    * core: stuff that is not Free/Open Source according to OSI/FSF does
+>>>>> not belong here. Not even closed-source stuff that we can
+>>>>> redistribute. So if there is at this time, that's something to fix.
+>>>>
+>>>> Most of files in kernel-firmware (which is in core) are not OSI/FSF free
+>>>> (approximate list from 2010 [1]). There was a short thread about that
+>>>> [2] where I asked the question if they should be moved to non-free due
+>>>> to them not being OSI/FSF free, and tmb agreed, while pterjan disagreed
+>>>> (saying BSD without source code (where a portion of the firmware files
+>>>> in question fall) is eligible for core).
+>>>>
+>>>> [1] http://lists.mandriva.com/cooker/2010-01/msg00525.php
+>>>> [2] https://mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20110115/002172.html
+>>>
+>>> Ah right, sorry for overlooking this.
+>>>
+>>> So what do we do? amend core inclusion definition for that? or move
+>>> these to nonfree? (and at what cost?) topic for next Council meeting
+>>> to decide? would you like to write a summary for this in
+>>> http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=meeting:council_notes_2011_03_28#open_questions
+>>> ?
+>>>
+>>> Romain
+>>
+>> fwiw, I think the best solution is to have an express policy to include
+>> such firmware in core.
+>> Without it, much hardware simply won't work.  Firmware/drivers are
+>> essentially extensions to hardware, so that software can work with them.
+>> The hardware is changed, and firmware/drivers have to be changed to
+>> accommodate the hardware.
+>> These firmware/drivers provide an interface which allows (free) software
+>> to run.
+>> A practical solution, which doesn't hurt free software.
+>> The alternative is (free) software that doesn't run properly.
+>>
+>> my 2 cents :)
+>
+> Sincerely, I would be more than happy than nVidia drivers went to core,
+> but I'm pragmatic. I can understand that moving only firmwares to
+> core, and leaving nVidia, ATI and other closed source drivers in non-free
+> can be a compromise solution. It's the difference between losing
+> 100% functionality of an important piece of hardware/system (network,
+> for example -now that I read the list in Anssi's mail, 80% of firmwares
+> in non-free are network- o fiber-channel), or getting a not so performant
+> system 'cause you dont have the binary drivers for your graphics card
+> (and I'm not aware of any other binary driver so popular/needed, nVidia
+> and ATI).
+>
+> So in short, there are three important pieces of software:
+> - net/fc/radeon firmwares, mandatory for some free drivers
+> - nVidia/ATI binary drivers, wanted but optional, not mandatory
+>
+> Firmwares and drivers, they are different beasts for me.
+>
+> And anyways, you already have firmwares in your hardware and in your
+> kernel which source you can't look at...
+> And cherry picking firmwares from standard kernel source looks like
+> madness for me.
+
+ok.
+My though was essentially that firmware is so close to hardware that its 
+actual free/non-free status shouldn't apply - we should treat it like 
+(almost) part of the hardware.
+
+As for the drivers, a little more distant from the hardware, they could 
+be in non-free, but I sincerely think that they should be on all 
+installation isos.
+That is, on installing from an iso, all hardware-related functions 
+should (ideally) be fully functional, even if it requires using non-free 
+drivers.
+The lack of some drivers (or components of drivers) can render a system 
+technically functional, but with important dysfunctions, simply because 
+the required drivers were not available on installation.
+That should not happen.
+The kernel, firmware and drivers, built on the hardware, provide a 
+platform on which the application software runs.
+True, it is better if drivers are open source, but in my view, it is 
+application software where open source is the most important.
+
+-- 
+André
+