[Mageia-dev] [RFC] move cairo-dock to tainted because of trademark/patent issues

Thu Nov 10 09:40:36 CET 2011

on Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:15
+in the Usenet newsgroup gmane.linux.mageia.devel
+Michael Scherer wrote:
+
+> Le mercredi 09 novembre 2011 à 14:14 +0100, Florian Hubold a écrit :
+>> Hi there,
+>> 
+>> after updating cairo-dock and -plugins to the latest version,
+>> it has come to my attention that cairo-dock has been removed
+>> from Fedora due to patent issues, as can be seen here:
+>> http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/gitweb/?p=cairo-
+dock.git;a=blob;f=dead.package;h=2f21e743a00cfe3accc33b8d5c974f2572bcdfc5;hb=9e2eb0b993
+6f326a454f6104a81c6061a5528625
+>> I've found no further explanation about this so far.
+>> 
+>> The corresponding patent (from Apple) should be this one:
+>> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-
+Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=5
+0&s1=7,434,177.PN.&OS=PN/7,434,177&RS=PN/7,434,177
+>> IMHO this Apple patent should not have been issued because of prior art:
+>> http://en.swpat.org/wiki/Apple_Dock but currently it's effective and we need to 
+>> respect it.
+> 
+> The base claim is indeed weak. 
+> 
+>> A related discussions about cairo-dock and trademarks of
+>> some of the included icons in cairo-dock-plugins can be seen here:
+>> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2009-January/000505.html
+>> To be honest, i don't think this was appropriate as those icons
+>> clearly seem to come from the game pingus, which is FL/OSS.
+>> 
+>> So i request cairo-dock and cairo-dock-plugins and cairo-dock-themes
+>> be moved to tainted. Any objections?
+
+You guys *really* need to talk to a lawyer.  Then when you know 
+how things work you will be able to make sensible decisions.  
+
+Maybe I can prime you with some background that I hope will be 
+helpful.  
+
+1.  Free legal advice is worth what you pay for it.  ;-)
+    Don't trust what I write - just take it as a starting point.  
+
+2.  Laws vary enormously from one jurisdiction to another. 
+    Where are you?  Your company?  Your assets?  Your 
+    employees?  Are you ever likely to travel to, or though 
+    barbaric counties where you could be dragged of the 
+    plane and jailed for something like wearing lipstick in 
+    the past - even though it was perfectly legal at the time 
+    and place that you did it?  
+
+3.  There could be serious translation difficulties.  Where I 
+    am, patents and trademarks are very different things.  That 
+    might be different in the French language and French / 
+    European law.  I suspect that you are confusing two 
+    different things that you need to understand.  Talk to 
+    a lawyer.  
+
+4.  Do the terms; sell, give away, sell for a profit, sell at 
+    cost, and non-profit organisation, have good French 
+    translations?  Are those terms legally relevant to you?  
+
+5.  There is such a thing as a world wide patent *application*, 
+    but there is no such thing as a world wide patent.  Almost 
+    all countries acknowledge such an application, but they 
+    do there own thing and have to be paid separately to finish 
+    the job.  
+
+I don't even know what you would call such a professional.  
+Here an IP lawyer is a specialist in intellectual property, 
+not internet protocols.  ;-)  Perhaps you want a patent attorney.  
+
+> Yes, I do have one, I think we agreed that tainted was for enforced
+> patents, or those that would likely be enforced. While the definition is
+> fuzzy, I doubt that the patent will be enforced, mainly because it is
+> weak, 
+
+Patented?  That would stop me SELLING stuff, if someone has a valid 
+patent in my jurisdiction, but if I am not selling then all patents 
+are irrelevant.  Check this with a local professional!  
+ 
+> Red Hat lawyers are right for a US company, but we are not in the same
+> position as Red Hat ( ie, we are not in the US, we are not a company
+> with several millions on the bank account and no one will ever attack us
+> because we are competing with them ).
+
+Red Hat is selling stuff for profit in the US, a very different 
+situation.  
+
+> For the icons, what is the problem exactly, ie what icons are
+> copyrighted ?
+
+Patents, trademarks and copyright are different things, at least 
+where I am.  Learn the difference, if there is one where you are.  
+
+Get competent legal advice then decide whether to run for the 
+hills or stand your ground and be prepared to say, "If you can 
+point to a valid French patent we will not sell that".  
+
+
+
+